Home Forums Explore Media Oil Painting The Technical Forum WN Olive Green?

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  • #1454239

    Hello, I’m intrested in knowing a bit more about the Winsor Newton Olive green, because its pigment mixture that intrigued me. It’s a transparent color made from PBk6 + PY110.

    My questions are:
    Is it a weak tinter? Or strong, average (compared with a Ivory Black, for example)?
    How near black is the mass tone?
    Does it dry matte or glossy?
    How is its average drying time? (based on the pigments, i suppose its a medium/long drier)
    Does anyone there have a swatch of it and be kind to share with me? :good:

    Sorry in advance for such detailed questions. I’m considering buying a big tube of it to experiment as a “chromatic black” in a pallete and unfortunatly, living in Brazil, paints are kinda expensive to go to the drawer. Thanks!

    Renato Fernandes
    https://www.instagram.com/renatonf_/

    #1454407

    I haven’t used it, but you can see another swatch of it on the Blick art supplies site.  It seems obviously greenish to me.  What about their Perylene black?  (which I also haven’t used btw.)

    insert pithy comment here.

    #1454417

    Hi Marc! Yeah, i’ve seen it on Blick. There’s also another swatch at this link:

    Winsor & Newton Artists’ Oil Colors: Olive Green

    The thing is that, neither seems to grasp the real feeling of a real world photograph where the swatch is near other real world things. These swatches seems also inconsistent between them. So thats why I ask here.

    Regarding PBk31, I already have it, and it has incredible handling characteristcs. Transparent but easy to get full coverage, strong tinter, dry glossy, etc. But, there are 1 problem and 1 thing i wish diferent. The problem is that there’s no 200 ml PBk31. The thing i wish diferent is the hue it tints. If I had the power to change PBk31 to the best hue I prefer it had, I would choose the Raw Umber hue, just because its a great starting point to go anywhere. And, at the same time, its hard to make another dark color into Raw Umber hue.

    Hope this makes sense and thanks for the suggestion

    Renato Fernandes
    https://www.instagram.com/renatonf_/

    #1454498
    Richard P
    Default

        That’s still a series 2 colour rather than a series 1 though.

        Have you looked at student grade paints? This Sap green in Winton seems dark in masstone and doesn’t contain any carbon black:

        Pigment Information
        This color contains the following pigments:
        PB15-Phthalo Blue

        PY110-Isoindolinone Yellow

        #1454527

        Hey Richard! Yeah, i did look at their Sap green too, its PB15+PY110 for both Winton and for the Artist line too. I don’t have reason to believe that the student grade would be darker then the Artist, as the Dickblick’s swatches suggest. Their swatches are inconsistent sometimes.

        From the swatches available at http://www.mackendrew.org, comparing to Olive Green, Sap green seems less dark, less coverage and weaker tinter. Its not a “bad choice”, of course, its just that I think for the purposes of being used as a near black, i tend to believe that olive green would win. But Sap green would certainly be an option too, more so if combined with Dioxazine Purple. Oh, the choices… hahaha

        Right now, Im indulging the idea of Purple Lake + Olive Green as 2 “blacks”, and leaving Perylene Black aside, just because its much easier to make a warm black bluer then the opposite. Perylene is great tho, just wished it had a raw/burnt umber tint instead of a blue/green tint. Purple Lake is only on 37 ml tubes too, but it’s series 1.

         

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        Renato Fernandes
        https://www.instagram.com/renatonf_/

        #1454531

        Also, for anyone interested, WN has replied my e-mail with the following information regarding their Olive Green:

        “If you are referring to coverage, then the Olive Green gives a good coverage. Olive Green is a weak tinter as with most transparent colours. The mass tone is dark with a brown tone, but certainly not black. It dries quite glossy and drying time will depend on the thickness of the film and what medium is used. Adding something like Alizarin crimson to Olive Green will give you a chromatic black.”

        I was pleased with the info, maybe wished that It wasn’t a weak tinter, but I have to test it out to know for sure.

         

         

        Renato Fernandes
        https://www.instagram.com/renatonf_/

        #1454539
        Richard P
        Default

            Good info! I’m a bit surprised it’s supposed to be glossy with carbon black in there.

            I’m wary of PV23 – Dioxazine Violet, and definately of PR83 – Alizarin Crimson.

            Have you considered mixing your own black from 200ml Series 1 or Student grades yellow, red, blue until you get a neutral (or yellow leaning) hue and then tubing it in a large 200ml tube?

            More work, but you’d get it just how you want it.

            #1454547

            I own two Ivory Blacks and Gamblin dries much more matte then the M.Grahams, and M.Grahams is much more opaque and tinter, despite both being carbon PBk 9. So my guess is that the same can happen with PBk 6 (carbon/lamp black). Perhaps PBk 6 is naturally more glossy then Ivory since its particles are smaller, too. And, also, in the WN Olive Green my feeling tells me that there is more PY110 then there is PBk 6, because they say that OG is transparent, and PBk 6 is usually opaque or semi-opaque at least. So, that glossy finish may come from the PY110.

            About PV23, I would be wary too if my goal would be to do light tints. But, if I were to add PV23 to my pallete, it would be to make darks, and for that PV23 is completly fine. PV23 is fine for a indoor lights too, 100y+. To do tints, I would just use PR122 + PB29, just in case. That said, I had PV23 in acrylics and I liked it. I think in acrylics PV23 is more useful, because its a transparent pigment with excelent coverage, a rare thing in acrylics. Its great to mix with Phthalo Green to make strong tinting desaturated blues. But in oils, the coverage is much better in all pigments, so PV23 loses some of its utilities, in my opinion. I should give PV23 + Sap Green a try one day, just to see what i’m missing.

            About the making black from red yellow and blue, being student grade paint or artist doesnt matter that much for me. The thing that there’s no “phthalo yellow” available. The closest one is PY150, and it has ZERO coverage to make a good black, besides being expensive. Fantastic for mixing, tho. PY110 and PY83 are not transparent nor they are dark in mass tone. So, idk, seems sketchy making.

            If I were to make my own black and tube it, it probably would be PBk6+PR101, trying to get both from glossy / moderate drying manufacturers pigments. A Van Dyke Brown type of color. Probably PBk6 from MG and PR101 from WN. But I still would need to buy the empty tube and equipment to make it, i’ve never done it before.

            The thing is that, after some conderation, I may prefer having these 2 rich, dark desaturated colors in the palette then one neutral black, for convenience purpuses. My feeling is that I will enjoy Olive green / Purple lake / Ultramarine blue mixing

            BTW, my ideal pallete using those 2:

            Winsor & Newton 200 ml Tube – Titanium White (PW 6+PW 4)
            M. Graham Oil Color 5oz – Yellow Ochre (PY 43)
            Winsor & Newton 37 ml – Indian Yellow Deep (PY 150)
            Winsor & Newton 37 ml – Scarlet Lake (PR 255)
            Winsor & Newton 200 ml Tube – Quinacridone Magenta (PR 122)
            Winsor & Newton 37 ml – Purple Lake (PBr25 + PV23)
            Winsor & Newton 200 ml Tube – French Ultramarine (PB 29)
            Gamblin Artist’s Oil Color 150 ml Tube – Phthalo Emerald (PG 36)
            Winsor & Newton 200 ml Tube – Olive Green (PBk6 + PY110)

            on the side bench
            Gamblin Artist’s Oil Color 150 ml Tube – Cad. Yellow Light (PY 35)

             

             

            Renato Fernandes
            https://www.instagram.com/renatonf_/

            #1454582
            Richard P
            Default

                All good points. Give it a go and let us know how it works out for you :)

                #1454640

                Sure will Richard :good:

                Renato Fernandes
                https://www.instagram.com/renatonf_/

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