Winsor & Newton colors

[Dave Johnson]

I’d like to know if anybody has used any of the following colors, and if so, what their experience was. Winsor & Newton Artists Oil Colours- VANDYKE BROWN, BROWN MADDER, or TERRA ROSA. Any reason to buy any of these if I already have BURNT UMBER, BURNT SIENNA, and VENETIAN RED?

"A bold failure is better than a timid semi-success." John Howard Sanden

[lovin art]

hI dAVE , I think the Vandyke was a favorite of older century paintings but its make up is that of very similar to burnt umber … a great Transparent pigment , Terra Rosa is also transparent where as Venetian Red is not its opaque ….I of course could be wrong

[Improv]

I’d like to know if anybody has used any of the following colors, and if so, what their experience was. Winsor & Newton Artists Oil Colours- VANDYKE BROWN, BROWN MADDER, or TERRA ROSA. Any reason to buy any of these if I already have BURNT UMBER, BURNT SIENNA, and VENETIAN RED?

If you go to WN Artisan Oils Colour Chart web page here:

http://www.winsornewton.com/products/oil-colours/artists-oil-colour/colour-chart

They list the following:

Vandyke Brown = Transparent
Burnt Umber = Transparent
Terra Rosa = Opaque
Venetian Red = Opaque
Brown Madder = Transparent

Cheers

Doug

[DaisyChart]

Hello, I am new here so I’m not allowed to post photos yet. But as soon as I am allowed to do so I’ll post a photo which I think answers your questions.

So forgive me but I’m going make a 2nd post with some details just below this one to see if that will enable me to do pics!

[DaisyChart]

Burnt Sienna, Terra Rosa and Venetian Red are all PR101. Terra Rosa falls between the other two in terms of hue. Therefore, I would say it is not going to add much to your palette.

WN VDB is extremely similar to WN Burnt Umber. It is slightly lower in tinting strength. I suppose if you were primarily looking for something to neutralize high value colors without darkening them, it might have a place. Otherwise, stick with what you have.

WN Brown Madder is very similar in value and tinting strength to Burnt Umber. It is just a bit more red. So again, I don’t think it will do much for you, given that you’ve already got Venetian Red.

[DaisyChart]

Here is the photo of the six WN colors you mentioned. I’m showing it twice, once with labels and once without, just in case the words are getting your way.

Of course, there is no telling if the colors will display correctly on your screen. However, it should show you the variations in values and tinting strength correctly. As for hues – well, there is no substitute for looking at a real paint swatch! See also my post above where I tried to describe the colors using words. These are all very low chroma colors – Burnt Umber and VDB are warm nearly-neutrals; Brown Madder has just a hint of red to it, and Terra Rosa has about as much chroma in it as does your existing Burnt Sienna, just more toward the red.

I hope that helps!

[Dave Johnson]

Thank you Sandra, Improv, and Daisy. Daisy- thanks for the side by side color charts. Did you paint them? There seems to be little difference between the paints in question, and the ones I already have. I paint portraits, for the most part, so I welcome any discussion about whether those paints would have much value to me.

"A bold failure is better than a timid semi-success." John Howard Sanden

[Improv]

Thank you Sandra, Improv, and Daisy. Daisy- thanks for the side by side color charts. Did you paint them? There seems to be little difference between the paints in question, and the ones I already have. I paint portraits, for the most part, so I welcome any discussion about whether those paints would have much value to me.

Dave-FYI-Winsor Newton also has colour swatches at that link that I gave previously.

Cheers

Doug

[TRANCHINA]

I’d like to know if anybody has used any of the following colors, and if so, what their experience was. Winsor & Newton Artists Oil Colours- VANDYKE BROWN, BROWN MADDER, or TERRA ROSA. Any reason to buy any of these if I already have BURNT UMBER, BURNT SIENNA, and VENETIAN RED?

The burnt sienna is excellent and quite unique, in my opinion. Much different than the burnt siennas of most other lines. Very nice for glazes, as it is transparent. Many other versions are more opaque. I use this, and several other brands.

I wouldn’t buy the van dyck brown, as it contains natural bituminous earth. I have some very old Van dyck brown that is not mixed with burnt sienna, and it is very different. I don’t use it, however, as it is not permanent. I have experimented though, and it is a beautiful color, that is quite useful, and nothing else approximates it, certainly not umbers. It has much lower tinting strength, and seems to be more akin to a very subtle black. Too bad it is not lightfast. I really don’t know why this pigment is even sold any longer. The WN version is much different, and seems similar to the umber, but with lower tinting strengh. Again, they have added Natural bitumimous earth (http://www.dickblick.com/items/00461-8313/#colorpigments), and I wouldn’t want to use that in my work.

If you bought a tube of permanent alizarin, with what you already have, you could mix the brown madder, and also use the perm alizarin, for other uses as well.

When it comes to the earth reds, you already have a very versatile version in the Venetian. You can easily modify it, to approximate most others, by adding a small amount of ultramarine, etc. With earth reds, there are just so many, and one could go broke trying to get them all, when it may not be needed.

JT

[Keith Russell]

I’d like to know if anybody has used any of the following colors, and if so, what their experience was. Winsor & Newton Artists Oil Colours- VANDYKE BROWN, BROWN MADDER, or TERRA ROSA. Any reason to buy any of these if I already have BURNT UMBER, BURNT SIENNA, and VENETIAN RED?

I haven’t tried W&N’s Van Dyk brown, but I love Williamsburg’s version; the Williamsburg VanDyk is very gritty and “earthy”, and yields awesome texture. I know it’s considered a fugitive colour, but I mainly use it mixed with other colours for it’s texture.

W&N’s Van Dyk Brown is NBr8 mixed with PBr7 (Burnt Sienna, Burnt Umber, etc.)

W&N’s Brown Madder is the same (PBr7–burnt umber, etc.) mixed with Anthrquinone Red, PR177. If you have a good transparent cool red, mix it with your Burnt or Raw Umber, and you can skip the Brown Madder.

W&Ns Terra Rosa is PR101, the ubiquitous synthetic (usually transparent) iron oxide used in a variety of colours…

Forcing the waveform to collapse for two decades...
http://www.syntheticskystudios.com
Hilliard Gallery, Kansas City, "Small Works", December 2019

[TRANCHINA]

[COLOR=”Teal]I haven’t tried W&N’s Van Dyk brown, but I love Williamsburg’s version; the Williamsburg VanDyk is very gritty and “earthy”, and yields awesome texture. I know it’s considered a fugitive colour, but I mainly use it mixed with other colours for it’s texture.

W&N’s Van Dyk Brown is NBr8 mixed with PBr7 (Burnt Sienna, Burnt Umber, etc.)

W&N’s Brown Madder is the same (PBr7–burnt umber, etc.) mixed with Anthrquinone Red, PR177. If you have a good transparent cool red, mix it with your Burnt or Raw Umber, and you can skip the Brown Madder.

W&Ns Terra Rosa is PR101, the ubiquitous synthetic (usually transparent) iron oxide used in a variety of colours…[/COLOR]

Any number of materials can be used for textural purposes, ground glass, on and on, and on. Kremer is a great place to look. When it comes to texture, considering what is available, the addition of something like natural bituminous eath, which can effect colors, and then subsequently change, doesn’t fit into my way of working. I keep anything like that out of my work.

[Keith Russell]

Any number of materials can be used for textural purposes, ground glass, on and on, and on. Kremer is a great place to look. When it comes to texture, considering what is available, the addition of something like natural bitumious eath, which can effect colors, and then subsequently change, doesn’t fit into my way of working. I keep anything like that out of my work.

That’s probably a very good idea. I’ll look into it…thanks.

Forcing the waveform to collapse for two decades...
http://www.syntheticskystudios.com
Hilliard Gallery, Kansas City, "Small Works", December 2019

[TRANCHINA]

[COLOR=”Teal]That’s probably a very good idea. I’ll look into it…thanks.[/COLOR]

You’re welcome. Glass beads, for one thing, are a wonderful material for adding texture. There are many things, but I have found the following to be excellent: http://kremerpigments.com/shopus/index.php?cat=01050103&lang=ENG&product=59832. The material is economical, and easy to process.

Jim

[Dave Johnson]

Thank you Keith and Termini for your additional input.

"A bold failure is better than a timid semi-success." John Howard Sanden

[Author]

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