Home Forums Explore Media Watercolor The Learning Zone what’s "hue" on a tube label mean?

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  • #984456

    Newbie here…why do some tubes say hue in paranthesis under the color name and others not?

    #1036790

    Some colors traditionally use a specific pigment. For example, the pigment for Cobalt Blue is a certain cobalt compound. For reasons of cost, toxicity, or whatever, a manufacturer may make a substitute color which has about the same hue but which does not use the traditional pigment, and in order to indicate this it may have the word “hue” after the color name. Thus Cobalt Blue Hue would look similar to genuine Cobalt Blue but would be made from substitute (usually less expensive) pigments.

    C&C is welcome.
    Richard

    #1036791
    Patty H
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        Thanks, Richard! I always wondered about this too! :)
        Patty

        #1036794
        jwcarroll
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            Richard said it wonderfully.

            A good example of this for watercolor would be Manganese Blue and Manganese Blue Hue. The hue though a good color just can’t compete with the original. But due to all sorts of things it is getting very hard to find Manganese Blue without paying out a lot of money.

            Jim

            You laugh at me because I am different, I laugh at you because you are all the same.

            #1036793
            FriendCarol
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                A good example of this for watercolor would be Manganese Blue and Manganese Blue Hue. The hue though a good color just can’t compete with the original. But due to all sorts of things it is getting very hard to find Manganese Blue without paying out a lot of money.

                The reason Manganese Blue is hard to find is that making it is a process that poisons the earth (our planet), and has therefore been banned in most places. Thus, only a limited supply is still around, which explains why it’s now expensive.

                Btw, I don’t agree that “Manganese Blue Hue” can’t compete with the original. I said this recently (a couple weeks ago) in the thread “Manganese Blue,” noting I had recently used the W/N hue for a large snowfield and it worked perfectly, as to hue and liftability, when I used it similarly to the way Zoltan Szabo had in 1992. Pampe then asked me to post my picture so everyone could evaluate the graininess (or flocculation) and liftability for themselves. I went to a lot of trouble to install my scanner and then posted it in a thread in the Watercolor Gallery called “Homage: Zoltan Szabo.” (You can find the thread by searching “Zoltan Szabo,” and judge for yourself.)

                Of course, as I had predicted, immediately after I installed the scanner (which is really a Lexmark X75 ‘Printrio’) on my online PC, the PC’s firewall and system fell to the hacker again. It took me a week to get back on. And no one bothered to comment on characteristics of manganese blue hue after I’d gone to all that trouble, either!

                (So don’t anyone ask me to post anything from now on! Grrrrr….)

                [FONT=Times New Roman]Audacity allows you to be at ease with your inadequacy, safe in the knowledge that while things may not be perfect, they are at least under way.
                Robert Genn[/I]

                #1036792
                Pars
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                    Richard said it wonderfully.

                    A good example of this for watercolor would be Manganese Blue and Manganese Blue Hue. The hue though a good color just can’t compete with the original. But due to all sorts of things it is getting very hard to find Manganese Blue without paying out a lot of money.

                    Jim

                    Hi Jim – If you missed the “manganese blue” thread, it appeared ASW has the genuine blue for 1/2 price. I did order a tube because I was curious and did several comparisons between it and the Holbein Hue. It paints differently for certain in samples–more concentrated, more body, deeper. If you aren’t familiar with this vender, they’re at

                    http://www.aswexpress.com

                    I’ve always found them reliable.

                    Zoe

                    #1036785
                    pampe
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                        I find the “hue” more like a student grade …the “non-hues” are far more saturated…..as Zoe stated

                        [FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Pam
                        My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular. ~~~~Adlai E. Stevenson Jr.

                        #1036789
                        Neeman
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                            Hue = color

                            The term HUE when on a tube of paint applies to a name of a paint that implies a single pigment.
                            So the name Viridian means that the pigment of this paint is Hydrated chromium oxide PG18.
                            Viridian Hue means the manufacturer has substituted a pigment or pigments that will be the same hue (color) as the name.
                            So W/N Cotman Viridian Hue is Chlorinated copper phthalocyanine PG7 which we know is very similar in Hue (color) to Viridian.

                            Hue never will be used for a paint that is a mixture of pigments, like Sap Green.
                            It is known that Sap Green is a mixture and therefore the term Hue is not used.
                            You then need to find out how the manufacturer has mixed this paint.

                            Where it becomes unstuck is in the Earth Paints.
                            e.g.
                            The name Burnt Sienna does NOT imply a single pigment paint, even if you expect it to be Synthetic iron oxide PR101, because another manufacturer might be using Natural iron oxide PBr7.

                            Good luck!!

                            Neeman

                            #1036788

                            Quoted from Handprint:

                            Paint manufacturers also use mixtures of relatively cheap pigments to match the color appearance of more expensive or fugitive ingredients.

                            So a paint with the marketing name cobalt blue might actually be made of ultramarine blue and phthalo blue. Nearly all “earth” pigments (yellow ochre, raw sienna, raw umber, burnt sienna, burnt umber, PBr7, and venetian red PR101), and many fugitive pigments (alizarin crimson, PR83 and rose madder, NR9), polluting pigments (manganese blue, PB33) or expensive pigments (especially cobalt blue, cadmium yellow, PY35 and cadmium red, PR108) are imitated in this way, especially in “student” paints.

                            These hue mixtures can be quite acceptable color substitutes for the original pigments, but they may suffer the same quality and lightfastness problems as convenience mixtures.

                            Char --

                            CharMing Art -- "Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art." Leonardo DaVinci

                            #1036787
                            JudyL
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                                I checked on the internet and found no information indicating that Maganese Blue was “toxic to the Earth” but could be toxic to people.

                                This is what I found…
                                Pigment History: Manganese Blue is a synthetic green-blue pigment made by fixing barium manganate on a barium sulfate base. Manganese Blue was favored by fresco painters and artisans interested in tinting cement. However, it was found to be highly toxic and ingestion or inhalation could cause a nervous system disorder. A difficult pigment to match, the inherent transparency of true Manganese Blue can only be re-created by using Zinc White to lighten the Phthalo blend’s value, then extending it further with a large dose of gel medium. The resulting glaze-like paint yields cool soft fields of color.

                                JudyL

                                The Artist Formerly Known as Jlyn

                                #1036786
                                artmom
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                                    Friend Carol, perhaps if you had posted your painting “Homage…” in the original Manganese Blue thread, you would have received posts that discussed the manganese in your painting. Just a suggestion. :)

                                    Lyn

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