What do you expect from your figure group?

[DavidHH Guide, Figure Forum]

I’m starting this thread because of various other threads about unfortunate “challenges” that posters have encountered during figure group sessions. I’m also trying to earn my keep as a guide on here

If I can list what I would like to see, maybe others can add their own thoughts or disagree with my opinion

1. Positive posing – inexperienced models often strike poses that they are unable to hold for even the shortest of times. How many of us have started drawing and watched the model collapse in the middle? I’m not saying that the pose shouldn’t be challenging to the artist but it should at least be physically possible to maintain

2. Instruction to the model – Organisers (in my experience) often just let the model strike a pose rather than give them a set of poses for the session: short poses, sitting, standing, lying down etc. I can’t imagine any art school letting the model just do his or her own thing. This could be easily achieved by producing a set of poses in advance that the model can practice before the session. Models should also think about how they appear to all the artists in the room, especially when posing in the round.

3. A sensible mixture of short and longer poses. I hated short poses when I started but now I wouldn’t be without them. We all need to get our hands moving for 15 minutes or so, its like an athlete warming up before the event. Apart from that, we need to learn how to “see” the pose quickly and get down something on paper. A few 2-5 minute poses are ideal. The rest of the session should be dedicated to a minimum of 20 minute poses or more depending on the length of the session so the artist can start developing a drawing.

I would suggest that we develop between us a set of poses that would work well in any life group, divided into short gestures and poses that would be suitable for all longer poses. It would be easy then to say to an organiser

“I found this set of poses on an art forum, it might be useful to send to new models before their next session. See what you think…”


This may have been thought of before and I know there are lots of poses on here that are suitable, but a simple set of 10 -20 poses could be very useful to all of us.

Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art - Leonardo da Vinci
More than happy to receive C&C on anything I post
Instagram
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[earlselwyn]

David-

In my experience, working with models is difficult. They don’t show up on time. They show up under the influence (chemically altered). Sometimes they move around too much. Sometimes they talk too much. We had a model last year that couldn’t sit in a chair! (bless her heart) I’m saying this with no personal judgement. I’m not perfect either. To be fair, I’ve made the same mistakes (sometimes with no clothes on). The difference is – I’m paying for the !@#$% model! (shaking my fist at the sky now)

I propose adding an item to your list:
4. Figure group must provide a reliable model.

-Earl

instagram.com/earlselwyn/

[DavidHH Guide, Figure Forum]

I think I hit a nerve Earl Some of our models, so I understand, are hired by email and not contacted till the day of the booking. Whatever happened to real contact?

Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art - Leonardo da Vinci
More than happy to receive C&C on anything I post
Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/the_henson_gallery/

[bethany: moderator portraits and figures]

One of my most important rules is that the model must feel respected and comfortable- temperature and a good support for them to sit/stand/lay on.
(which is why I was horrified at the disrespect shown to the model recently when a drawer opened an outside door in the middle of a session!)

Because I am so old and have been life drawing for well over 30 years… I have seen and experienced life drawing sessions in many different venues and many different models. It is the basis of all my artworks.
From 30 seconds to 5 days- all poses have their challenges. I have drawn every age from just-old-enough to 85 years young.

The best models are ones who are comfortable and have a sense of what makes a good pose. When I am training a new model- I talk them through the expectations and make sure that they are ok.
If they study yoga- wonderful!

Good lighting is so important! One of our best ideas is a large black cloth backdrop- which works because we are a small group and can form a u-shape around the model.
We have 5 x 2 minutes- gets the hand/eye moving. Then 3 x 15 mins for seated/leaning standing/leaning. Tea break. Then 2 x 25 minutes for reclining/seated. Sometimes in the warmer weather (and a good experienced model) we can have one longer one for 50 mins instead of the 2 x 25. When we have saved up some money- we hire a model for a long pose- and get the paints out.
Teaching the models contrapposto and what makes an interesting pose is worth the effort.

bethany
moderator in figures & portraits blogs: artbybethany life-presence
website www.bethanyart.com
My inspiration is art... because without art, we would just be stuck with reality. ~Daniel R. Lynch

[DavidHH Guide, Figure Forum]

Come on Bethany, you cant be that old I agree totally with what you are saying. I have never seen disrespect in my own group. we always make sure blinds are down and the door is locked before we start the session. As for disruption, You only ever hear the fervent scratching of pencils and crayons.

I agree it’s essential to train a new model and in any session over an hour a break should be given, both for the model and the artists. By the sound of it your sessions are usually two hours

Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art - Leonardo da Vinci
More than happy to receive C&C on anything I post
Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/the_henson_gallery/

[ArtistOz]

The best models are Ballet dancers, yoga enthusiasts, and circus performers. And possibly those public statue performers if you can ever find one near you. Body builders who pose for photos make the worst models they just can’t tense up like they do for a photo and expect to hold it for more than 30 seconds. We had one that utterly destroyed our group you couldn’t tell him to do more relaxed poses, he didn’t get it. He was trying to please us or something like that but every pose collapsed after a minute or two.

I’ve had some good drawings come from when the model didn’t show up we drew each other. And we have had models look at us then run away I hate rejection.

I agree with Bethany if you do life drawing long enough it does age you.

There is no way you can control the life drawing class from lights to models to participants. You have to find your own way to capture the information you want. Use the model as a reference, then add your own information. Reclining models are the worst in my opinion, I’ve had a few lazy models.

The last 60 Bargue plates are useful references for poses or you could cobble together somehow drawing poses you like and put them in a folder to show models, sometimes you have to think for them.

Bill,
https://www.flickr.com/photos/artistoz/
Instagram, billwperry

[DavidHH Guide, Figure Forum]

“and circus performers”

Not many of those left sadly but we do see a few clowns…

“I’ve had some good drawings come from when the model didn’t show up we drew each other.”

agreed

“Reclining models are the worst in my opinion”

In the room we are using right now, any reclining pose involves leaning over the desk to see them

Unfortunately this term has been a disaster both for models and room hire one way or another. The models are paid a reasonable fee and modelling is an art all of its own. Too many people think its an easy task but its just as hard as doing the drawing

Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art - Leonardo da Vinci
More than happy to receive C&C on anything I post
Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/the_henson_gallery/

[AllisonR]

I want only one thing – to have a pose more than 5 minutes.

I am NOT joking. ALL croquis classes where I live do 30 second, 1 minute, 2 minute and end with one or two 5 minute poses. I have asked, begged, haggled, to have a longer pose, but no other artists want it. :o In fact I’m considered odd for even asking. When I was at a proper atelier, poses were minimum 2 weeks.

I’d gratefully put up with a late, drunk, sloppy, oddly posed, poorly lit model, if one would just pose for a few hours.

Being born places you at a greater risk of dying later in life.

http://www.artallison.com/

[DavidHH Guide, Figure Forum]

I had never heard the French word ‘croquis’ outside of ‘Croquis Cafe’ before Alison and it had never occured to me to look the word up until now.

Wikipedia defines its as “a quick and sketchy drawing of a live model. Croquis drawings are usually made in a few minutes, after which the model changes pose or leaves and another croquis is drawn.”

Croquis Cafe videos always finish with a 20 minute pose

I can see its benefits but I understand your frustration. Short sketches do focus the mind and hand but nothing ever gets finished.

I looked at your page and love your work

Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art - Leonardo da Vinci
More than happy to receive C&C on anything I post
Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/the_henson_gallery/

[caldwell.brobeck]

I don’t expect a lot from a figure group. I enjoy going to them when I have the time – there’s usually a number of them going on in this area – but I’m pretty much open to anything as long as the model is treated decently and the other artists aren’t irritating. It’s fun seeing how other people do things, because my own practice tends to be rather different.

In terms of decent model treatment, I agree with Bethany up above; there’s other things I would include, such as reasonable pay and a private changing area. If the group is taking a break, let the model take a break as well. If he or she wants the break time to use his or her cell phone or have a snack or wander around the room, don’t use the break to insist on discussing the pose!

Group behaviour that I find irritating lies along lines of chattering during the pose, niggling about minor fixes after breaks during long pose (“Your pinkie isn’t where it was!” sort of complaints), creating disturbances by arriving late or leaving early. And turn off those phones. And get an easel proper to do your work, or learn how to work holding your support. Big tables are a pain.

A major concern of whomever is in charge should be the well being of the model. This is especially true if the model is new to the work; some will push themselves to the point they actually injure themselves. I’ve worked with several models who have run into that sort of problem elsewhere because they won’t speak up. It’s really important that whoever is running the group to make clear that if something starts to hurt, or some body part starts to fall asleep, just get up and work it off.

On the broader scope, I think it’s really important for the group to work out what they want, especially if the artists are prone to being dissatisfied. E.g., if you want classic poses focused on muscle groups or dynamic tension, or you want performative poses that express psychological states, that sort of thing, work it out within the group and then with the model. And be ready to adapt, because a lot of poses that are considered classical really can’t be held for very long. Before suggesting a long pose, I suggest trying it out yourself at home! You’ll quickly find that holding this pose for any length of time is just not on

[URL=https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=38682321]Wikimedia[/URL]

Personally I find trying to adapt to unexpected conditions really enjoyable, it really pushes your own limits. One model I worked with for example wanted to extend her own physical training exercises, so we’d set the timer for 5 minutes, which seemed to be the longest safe time to do these sorts of poses. But she’d break when it started getting hard to hold – sometimes half a minute, sometimes two or three, we rarely made 5 minutes.

Sometimes I will ask a model for a specific pose, or type of pose, but that’s because I’m trying to work out a specific problem, or trying to clarify in my mind how something works. But not generally. People being themselves I find endlessly fascinating.

Cheers;
Chris

C&C of all sorts always welcome! (I don't mind rude or harsh criticism.)
I suppose I have to do this too (my blog, & current work). My Visual Arts Nova Scotia page.
Art is the most intense mode of individualism that the world has known - Oscar Wilde

The primary palette: Attention, observation, memory, imagination, integration, execution

[earlselwyn]

AllisonR- I’m glad you posted. I thought I was the only “long pose” fan on wetcanvas! -Earl

instagram.com/earlselwyn/

[Nonno]

I have been on both sides as an artist and a model. As an artist I expect reasonable ability from the model in terms of poses and holding a pose. I expect the room to be comfortable, not too hot or cold. (the problem here is that the model often needs a warmer room than the artists).
I really like gentle music, easy listening, classical, jazz etc playing quietly. Hate heavy, loud rock etc! The first LD group I went to had no music and the silence was rather off-putting.

The model should turn up in plenty of time to get changed and ready.
There is nothing worse than waiting for a model who is late.
You never know whether they are going to be there soon or not coming at all.

That was how I started modelling, when the model never showed and volunteers were called for.

As a model, I don’t like artists arriving late, it distracts everybody.
I have had a session cancelled at break time because not enough artists turned up to cover the costs. The organizer refused to pay me more than half the fee.

I have never experienced disrespect from artists. Occasionally one disappears at the beginning of the session when he (it’s always a he) discovers I’m not young and female.

Sometimes artists have to leave early, especially if they use public transport. As a model it’s nice to be told that in advance and for them to leave on a pose change.

Finally, the room should be private. I once had a funny experience in a LD group which meets in a room in a complex with a shared kitchen.

There is a large serving hatch to the kitchen which is normally closed.

This time it was open but I didn’t ask for it to be shut because the group organizer was outside the room talking to someone by the kitchen door.
I was doing a standing pose facing the kitchen, and all the artists were arranged with their backs to the kitchen. You guessed it, a woman came into the kitchen. She crossed right over it to the sink, filled a glass with water and turned to go out. She copped yours truly, full frontal, uttered a shriek and ran out of the kitchen. I just collapsed with laughing, and had to explain to all the artists what had happened.

[bethany: moderator portraits and figures]

Oh, Jonathan I am so glad you had a sense of humour with that unexpected encounter!
We meet in an hold hall with internal doors that don’t shut properly- which means heating the space is tricky. I live in fear of someone pushing an outside door opening onto the model. I think respecting the model is so important.
I am also a huge fan of longer poses- they are such a luxury. Now you made me want to paint a long pose!

bethany
moderator in figures & portraits blogs: artbybethany life-presence
website www.bethanyart.com
My inspiration is art... because without art, we would just be stuck with reality. ~Daniel R. Lynch

[DavidHH Guide, Figure Forum]

Good to see the perspective of both model and artist in one Jonathon and I love the story

The idea that someone would walk out because you are male is ridiculous People like that need to examine their reason for being there. I much prefer drawing the female body but drawing the male is more challenging and can be more rewarding

Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art - Leonardo da Vinci
More than happy to receive C&C on anything I post
Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/the_henson_gallery/

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