Ventilation Question

[MikeAurelius]

Patty – I respectfully disagree about the size of the fan as it relates to the size of the room.

The size of the fan should be in direct proportion to the size of your torch/work. At a minimum, for the Hothead/QuietTorch/Fireworks/Minor/Bobcat torches, at least 350 to 400 cfm, with a vent hood is sufficient air movement.

The vent hood, as has been discussed many times on this board and the ISGB should have baffles to bring the vented part down to near the table level. This closes off the rest of the room, and makes the room size irrelevant.

Mike Aurelius
President
Aura Lens Products, Inc.

"You can either take action, or you can hang back and hope for a miracle. Miracles are great, but they are so unpredictable." -- Peter Drucker

[patfrantz]

Hi Folks!

In answer to the question ‘does size matter’; when it comes to fans for venting a flame working bench area. I have talked to a large number of health professionals that say artists & chemists are the most toxic people in the general population. I found this very alarming, so I sought the technical opinion of a major borosilicate glass color manufacturer ( I sometimes work in borosilicate colored glass, which is very toxic when it melts ) to look at my venting set up and point out any weaknesses that could be improved. The more I learn about the subject, the more alarmed I become when I think about what other people perceive as adequate ventilation. I find that many people give no thought at all because it takes time and money to deal with it.

Another good way to test ones personal venting system is to smoke a cigar at your bench and if the person standing behind you can not smell the cigar smoke, you have good ventilation. That means that 100% of the smoke goes out the vent before anyone behind you can smell it!

If you want to read more about the subject of melted glass toxicity, there are a series of articles in “The Flow” magazine that covers a little known aspect of flame working that everyone should be familiar with if they plan to do a lot of flame working. It was a real eye opener for me! The information is about borosilicate colored glass, but the same issues apply to soft glass, the author has informed me.

In response to the request put forth by gb-beads, I am at the office at the moment and can not get to my photos of my venting system.

When I go home, I will find them and post them on WC as soon as I can.
Pat Frantz

www.patriciafrantzstudios.com
http://patriciafrantzstudio.etsy.com
http://patriciafrantzstudio.blogspot.com
http://patfrantztravels.blogspot.com

[springdream]

Not to be off topic, but I have a Quiet Torch (I’m about to start trying to use it tomorrow :D) and I’d like to know where to get a proper hood – I didn’t see any in Home Depot that were near 350CFM. They only had 190 and 200.

_________________________
Steph
http://www.springdream.com
[FONT=Arial]All jewelry, but no beads.

[DiPat]

I was at Sears today and they have a Kenmore. It’s two speeds, 360-400/420ish. Mr. Salesman quoted me $189 for the 30 inch model in white…

I also found a bathroom exhaust fan at Home Depot today… Broan model L300 – 300cfm for $129.00. Broan also has a model 504 ten inch exhaust fan, 350cfm – special order so $ is in question. These would have to be jimmy rigged into a baffle/box, but options…

Anyone else have a less expensive solution for the 300-400cfm range?

Diane =}

VISIT MY WEBSITE
VISIT MY ETSY

[springdream]

Thanks Diane! If you opt for the bathroom fan you still need it to be above the flame, right?

Goodnight all – I’ll check back in the am – off to bed!

_________________________
Steph
http://www.springdream.com
[FONT=Arial]All jewelry, but no beads.

[Joellen]

Pat, where could I find “The Flow” magazine and these articles? I could really use some specific info on hazards right now. In fact, if you know of anyone who is a true expert on the issue of ventilation for lampworking, maybe I could pay him/her for a phone consultation on my particular situation.

My husband just walled off a “hobby room” in the back end of our garage, and it’s LARGE (12′ W x 20′ L). We’re finally going to get all the stained glass stuff out of our spare bedroom and use this room for torching and flat glass. The ventilation system is being built right now by a heating & air conditioning contractor, and I hope it’ll be enough, but now I’m really worried that it won’t be. I read everything I could on here and the ISGB archives, but it was still hard to pin down exactly what we needed. This thread is the first time I’ve ever heard the idea that room size, not hood size, should be used to determine how big a fan will be needed. The fan going into ours is an industrial 800 CFM, I believe, but will be put on a switch so it can be less than that if desired. We have only one torch at this point, a Lynx, but made the hood wide enough over the table and against the wall that we can put in a second torch someday, with the kiln between us. The hood starts 10 inches in from the front of the table, so will be 32″ from front to back and 7′ left to right over the entire table. I hope 10″ in will be far enough from my face while working. I don’t remember how far off the table surface the bottom of the hood is, but my husband insisted we leave it high enough so we could get into the kiln on that table without ducking under the hood.

I thought we should make the hood space smaller, so as not to be sucking all that air into it that’s nowhere near the torch flame, but since I don’t have a clear grasp of what the requirements actually are and the principles behind them, I can’t argue any point convincingly. The H/AC guy is well versed in industrial ventilation systems for restaurants, but knows nothing about torchwork. To complicate matters, he installed a small furnace to heat this room, and I’m sure we’ll just be sucking all the hot air right out through the vent. Make-up air was supposed to come from two large (also usable for fire escape) windows on opposite sides of the room furthest from the torch, one open to the outside and one open to the garage interior, but we hear from the contractor now that we shouldn’t use the interior window to draw fresh air, as that could possibly pull gas fumes up and into the furnace if one of our cars would happen to have an engine leak someday. (!!!!) Apparently, that’s why the furnace was required to be installed at least 2′ off the floor in the garage; the gas would normally pool if it leaks.

I’m starting to lose hope at this point, and new things to worry about are cropping up every day, it seems. If I could get some straight, trustworthy info at least on the vent hood specs, maybe I could still prevent us from making an expensive mistake that will have to be modified later. Seriously, if you know anyone with all the answers, please, please PM me.

– Jo

[Plato]

I hope 10″ in will be far enough from my face while working.

I would personally find that very confining and unnecessary…limiting,too, in what you can do with your table and room.Proper ventilation does not have to be stuck in your face.It needs to work and allow you to work.

What do you think glassworkers and lampworkers who work larger than beads do???

Plato:)

[Joellen]

I asked my husband, and he said the hood starts 10″ in from the front edge of the table and hangs down 3′ above the tabletop. So, it won’t actually be in my face.

I have no idea what other glassworkers use for ventilation. I’ve not noticed ventilation systems at the few places I’ve been lucky enough to visit, but I didn’t ask them about it either, so maybe they had it in place and I just wasn’t aware of it.

Unfortunately, I know several lampworkers who are terribly casual about ventilation, just working with a fan in a window and using pixie dust, enamels, etc…

– Jo

[createdjoy]

I have seen Sears and Home Depot listed as having fans, does anyone know any others? Would those that were listed do the job that we need?

Thanks!

Enjoy life, now is a good time.

[Starrr]

After over a year of setting up my studio and reading all the info on both boards about ventilation, I went the easy route and called Glasscraft. I ordered their exhaust hood with the extra blower. It is on route as we speak. They are very versed and easy to deal with. Beth was up on all the info on the boards and was able to answer all my questions. The cost with the extra blower only came to 425.00. Shipping from west to east coast cost about 45.00, but there is no way to avoid that! I would highly recomend them. Saves alot of aggravation and once the system is in, you can always update to boro or a bigger torch in the future. I have no ties to the company it was my first dealings with them.

[createdjoy]

Starrr thanks for the info. do you know what the cfm rating is on the new unit you are getting? Also, is it quiet or????

Thanks,
Bonnie:)

Enjoy life, now is a good time.

[Schooner Girl]

[i]Originally posted by glassguy [/i]
[B]Hey mcduck say hi to mj …. I can’t believe how easy this was for my vent. I bought a 10″ round kitchen fan from granger with a very speed switch. I put in in my window and blocked off the rest. This whole idea came from L J . I did it and it works great! The noise ain’t bad because I use a low speed. Hi speed is 450cfm and I use about1/2 of that and it works great!! I have a window on the other side of the studio that I have open for makeup air. So far so good…. I will take a pic if you want john [/B]

Please post the picture of your ventilation set up.

Thanks.

Gisele

[FONT=Arial]Gisele

[Schooner Girl]

[i]Originally posted by Starrr [/i]
[B]After over a year of setting up my studio and reading all the info on both boards about ventilation, I went the easy route and called Glasscraft. I ordered their exhaust hood with the extra blower. It is on route as we speak. They are very versed and easy to deal with. Beth was up on all the info on the boards and was able to answer all my questions. The cost with the extra blower only came to 425.00. Shipping from west to east coast cost about 45.00, but there is no way to avoid that! I would highly recomend them. Saves alot of aggravation and once the system is in, you can always update to boro or a bigger torch in the future. I have no ties to the company it was my first dealings with them. [/B]

Please give the cfm rating the new unit you got ? Also, is it quiet?

Where do they put the second blower?

Are you happy with the unit?

Please give update. Photo would be very nice if you could.

Thanks.

Gisele

[FONT=Arial]Gisele

[springdream]

Item Description:
Exhaust Hood

Details:
This exhaust hood has a 5 easy step assembly. The 650 CFM fan can be mounted on either end. Comes with 8 feet of 10-inch flexible duct to vent outside. Dimensions: 40″ long x 24″ deep

http://www.glasscraftinc.com/product/product_detail.cfm?part_id=1342

They aren’t on the west coast though? I thought they were in Colorado. Everyone kept telling me to take a class there.

_________________________
Steph
http://www.springdream.com
[FONT=Arial]All jewelry, but no beads.

[springdream]

http://www.airshack.com
http://www.ventilationdirect.com
There are more, but I’ll have to post when I get home.

_________________________
Steph
http://www.springdream.com
[FONT=Arial]All jewelry, but no beads.

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