Home Forums The Town Center Café Guerbois Under My Skin – Fake or Fortune episode

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  • #991508
    AllisonR
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        This really got under my skin. What a greedy pig – this Simon Murray wants 75% of something that he never owned. Love when he answers what he does for a living, takes him 5 minutes to say he is a lawyer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2co5gZg9x48

        Being born places you at a greater risk of dying later in life.

        http://www.artallison.com/
        #1198130
        Shannon Expat
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            I am disappointed at how easy it is to claim ownership of something that you have no record to prove or disprove that it had been stolen, gifted or sold in the past. Disgusting. That painting was likely given to the help by a previous generation, no records were likely kept in those cases, but for certain if it was stolen in the last century there would have been police records.

            Really, really sad. I am 100% in support of the efforts to return art stolen during WWII, but this type of case doesn’t come close to deserving the same treatment.

            #1198120
            snoball
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                Pitiful and in the end the lawyers are the only ones who will benefit.

                Q. What do you call 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the sea?
                A. A start.


                If you're asking me for advice, I'm going to assume that you've run out of rational options.
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                #1198131
                Shannon Expat
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                    I wonder if this would have been an issue if the tv program had not been involved, they were the ones who proved who the children were by traveling to Barbados (? was it?), to link it to the Blake family. I doubt the auction house would have felt the need to have gone that far.

                    #1198121
                    ianuk
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                        Why did Fiona Bruce take it upon herself to find the history of ownership? The art expert was excellent. It’s actually more of a platform for Fiona Bruce than art itself, I dislike the woman, and not just from the TV program.

                        I don’t even want to mention the word L****s — grrrrrrrrrrrr

                        #1198124
                        brianvds
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                            Pitiful and in the end the lawyers are the only ones who will benefit.

                            Q. What do you call 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the sea?
                            A. A start.

                            Last winter was so cold, my lawyer had his hands in his own pockets… :-)

                            __________________________
                            http://brianvds.blogspot.co.za/

                            #1198125
                            Davkin
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                                I watched this whole thing, it was both interesting and sad. I’m no fan of lawyers in general, (Though I do have a good friend that’s a lawyer) but I think if you look at the situation dispassionately from both sides they both have a claim. There’s one big question that neither side can answer that if they do find an answer would settle the whole thing, (how did the painting get from the estate to a dump?). I don’t think it’s fair to call Simon Murray greedy, he is only representing the interests of the family and at first saw a way to help fund the restoration of the family estate, but once he learned more about the painting and it’s history he has since decided he would rather keep it in the family, and while he may not have “owned” personally it most definitely was once owned by the family. You could look at the other side as being greedy too if you want to be cynical about it. They never knew the painting was worth anything, then thanks to Antiques Road Show they thought the painting was worth 30k, if they had taken the 70/30 deal they might have netted 30k and probably even more, but rather than take that money they never knew they had before Antiques Roadshow pointed out the value of the painting they decided to let the painting be withdrawn from auction so they might be able to get a bigger pay day in the future. Either side could be called greedy, and either side could be seen as just trying to keep what they believe is theirs, I really don’t see any villains in this story. If the Blakes gave the painting away to someone who eventually discarded it then they have no claim to it now, but if the painting was stolen from the residence then it should be returned to them. Unfortunately we may never have the answer and the painting will remain in limbo indefinitely or until one side gives in.

                                David

                                David

                                #1198129
                                Katie Black
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                                    I watched the whole thing too…and I thought that Simon was a greedy, smiling smug toad!…….funny how people see differently though.:)

                                    Katie Black Fine Art

                                    "Life is far too important to be taken seriously." - Oscar Wilde

                                    #1198119
                                    BrianWarner
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                                        I have to go along with David on this one, and in the end, with the provenance the Blake family now has from the letters, I have doubts that the lady, Selina, and her kids will ever see any of the money. Unfortunate, as, if her father hadn’t picked the painting up at the tip it would almost certainly have been lost for ever.
                                        Considering that 10% is commonly thought to be a fair amount for the return of lost and found property, I assume the lawyer/family-member, Blake, considered his 25% offer to be more than generous, and I think Selina was ill advised to turn down the offer, although I can understand her reaction in the heat of the moment.

                                        #1198132
                                        Shannon Expat
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                                            The issue I have is that for the Blake family this painting wasn’t lost or stolen, their interest only came about when the painting was put up for sale with a hefty estimate. The painting left their possession at least 20 years prior with no reported concern on their part which indicated that the painting was either given or thrown away by the family. I think it was found rolled up, so not even framed, I don’t see how provenance on who the painting was of is important.

                                            #1198126
                                            Davkin
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                                                The issue I have is that for the Blake family this painting wasn’t lost or stolen,

                                                Really? How do you know this?

                                                David

                                                David

                                                #1198122
                                                ianuk
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                                                    If 50% to each party for something that was lost to one and found to another, is not enough from something of medium value, then they are both greedy.

                                                    Look at nature, work independently, and solve your own problems. (Winslow Homer)

                                                    #1198123
                                                    AllisonR
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                                                        Really? How do you know this?

                                                        David

                                                        Because the Blake family never reported it stolen. Never reported any burglaries, stolen items, nothing… during the time. They were informed about the painting when it was only worth 30k and they ignored it, only when it was up for much more did they suddenly get involved. And pulling that last minute stunt, that was a typical bullying lawyer tactic.

                                                        Why is his side greedy? 70-30, that is greedy.

                                                        Being born places you at a greater risk of dying later in life.

                                                        http://www.artallison.com/
                                                        #1198133
                                                        Shannon Expat
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                                                            Really? How do you know this?

                                                            David

                                                            Well…I watched the show. I don’t have reason to believe the Sotheby’s guy is lying about the fact that they checked with police etc. and also with the family directly when he was vetting the painting.

                                                            #1198127
                                                            Davkin
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                                                                Because the Blake family never reported it stolen. Never reported any burglaries, stolen items, nothing… during the time. They were informed about the painting when it was only worth 30k and they ignored it, only when it was up for much more did they suddenly get involved. And pulling that last minute stunt, that was a typical bullying lawyer tactic.

                                                                Why is his side greedy? 70-30, that is greedy.

                                                                It’s not greedy at all if the painting legally belongs to them, it’s generous even.

                                                                David

                                                                David

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