Home Forums Explore Media Oil Painting The Technical Forum Student Grade in Professional Use

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  • #484996

    Is anyone aware of any professional realist/figurative artists who paint exclusively (or mainly) using student grade paint like Van Gogh, Winton or Georgian? This has been something I’m very, very curious about. There MUST be someone out there doing this. Any information is welcome so please let me extend a BIG THANK YOU to anyone who takes the time to respond.

    #957530
    Richard P
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        Instead of thinking of using all student grade or artist grade, think of the individual colours. For example Phthalo pigments are so strong that even student grade are very usable and perhaps easier to use as not so overpowering.

        Earth colours and blacks are in the same situation in my testing.

        #957509
        Don Ketchek
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            I can not answer your question specifically, although from time to time someone will mention a name (I know James Gurney has some student grade tubes in his paint box, but certainly not exclusively), but it is important to note that the labels “student grade” and “artist grade” are just marketing labels. They are not some sort of official category with any specific determining factors. They are merely a way for companies that make a cheaper and more expensive line of paints to differentiate between the two.

            If you have concerns about the durability of student grade paints, I would check the brands’ websites and check the lightfastness ratings. I believe W&N has almost all the same lightfastness ratings in their student and artist grade lines, I am not sure about the other brands you mention. Normally the difference between student and artist grade is about avoiding the expensive pigments and using hues instead, as well the amount of pigment load and amount of fillers. Of course, these characteristics differ among so-called artist grade paints as well. As mentioned, there is no official dividing line between student and artist grade paints. Personally, I would have no hesitation using student grade for professional work as long as they were from a good reputable brand and seemed to give me good results.

            Don

            #957517
            contumacious
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                I was planning some large paintings up to 48×96 inches and didn’t want to spend $150-300 on the paint for every painting if I didn’t have to, so on the recommendations here on WC and elsewhere, I decided to try just the single pigment Georgian oils. I bought one tube of each to test, paying $8.60 each for the huge 225ml tubes on a special sale event. I did a test sheet with each one, mixing from pure paint to almost pure white for each swatch. Comparing them to my artist grade paints from Gamblin, Daniel Smith, Grumbacher Pretested, Lefranc & Bourgeois Extra Fine and a few others, I could see no difference between any of them. The texture and handling was just what I like, not stiff like putty, but not runny, when used straight out of the tube, great pigment intensity with one exception, the Pyrole Orange which was certainly OK, but not as intense some others. After having done a few paintings now with them I wouldn’t hesitate to use them on any painting. The only mixed pigment hue I use is their Sap Green which I also like quite well. I did not buy their Titanium white as it contains Zinc, but did buy the Buff Titanium which is a single pigment paint. It is very opaque and a nice light tan tone but is more stiff than the other colors. I just add some walnut oil to make it easier to use. The rest of them work wonderfully straight out of the tube. Be aware that they apparently changed their formulation a while back, so older, negative reviews are not valid for their current offering. I saw no evidence of skimping on pigment by using large amounts of filler.

                Though I cannot say for sure, it is assumed that the Dick Blick Studio oils which are made in England for Blick, are also from Daler Rouney and would likely be the Georgian equivalent with the Dick Blick branding on them. If you can’t find the Georgian paints at a price lower than the average of $10.75 for 225 ml, the 200 ml Blick Studio paints at $9.17 current pricing, are actually a bit less money than the Georgian per milliliter at that price even though you get less per tube. I plan to try a few of them as well and will probably post my findings. My only regret is not having bought two to three times more than the 70+ tubes I did get on sale.

                #957507
                artistjames
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                    I was planning some large paintings up to 48×96 inches and didn’t want to spend $150-300 on the paint for every painting

                    For something that size it might be worth considering using enamels like the ones used to paint houses. Obviously the pieces you have in mind are intended to be seen from a distance, so it would seem a waste of money to buy paints from an art supply house when you could go to a paint store for a fraction of the cost!

                    #957518
                    contumacious
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                        For something that size it might be worth considering using enamels like the ones used to paint houses. Obviously the pieces you have in mind are intended to be seen from a distance, so it would seem a waste of money to buy paints from an art supply house when you could go to a paint store for a fraction of the cost!

                        No, they aren’t intended to be viewed from a distance only. They are gallery pieces that will be just as detailed as my 9×12 paintings and people will be literally inches a way from them sometimes. Interestingly, the cost difference is not that much between light-fast professional quality sign painters enamels and the Gorgian oils. For example 1Shot Enamel is $110 / gallon. The Georgian paints $120 / gallon. Well worth the extra $10 to have professional quality oils rather than flat boring enamel – Plus I really dislike painting with a brush with enamel paint. I need the feel of the oil paint under the brush and the visible brush strokes including the marks made by the bristles. Lastly, I would never use paint store paint on any of my paintings no matter what the cost. There is no comparison in pigment load and longevity. House paint is designed to last 15-25 years, has very low pigmentation compared to oil paints and does not mix anywhere nearly as well when doing tints and hue variations.

                        #957508
                        artistjames
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                            No, they aren’t intended to be viewed from a distance only.

                            Obviously you have a good idea of what you are doing. Good luck with that!!!

                            #957513
                            monet63
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                                Yes.
                                Until a few years ago, when I went to buy colors for my work, a very old friend (over 80 years) professional realist painter (mostly portraits), regularly asked me to buy some Winton tubes for him, in 200 ml. size tubes. He no longer moved from his home, and always said to me “think, how lucky I am: I can only paint 15 hours a day”.
                                He’s ever painted with Winton only (previously called “London”), and I’ve seen his 50-year-old paintings in stunning conditions.

                                His palette was complete: silver white im., chrome yellow im., cadmioum red im., permanent alizarin, ultramarine blue, phthalo green, yellow ocher, red ocher (called light red), natural umber, burnt Sienna, ivory black.
                                :wave:

                                Mimmo Ceccarelli - Painter
                                https://www.facebook.com/ceccarellimimmo/

                                #957534
                                ilya K
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                                    contumacious, I’m wondering which white do you use with Georgian? I think finding one without zinc is a challenge. Those from Schmincke with barium sulfate?

                                    Ilya K
                                    C&C always welcome

                                    #957510
                                    Gigalot
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                                        Afrmov use Winton because it has perfect consistency and gives wonderful impasto textures for his paintings.

                                        #957533
                                        Ted B.
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                                            There’s such a wide range of “quality” within “student-grade oil paints” from total crap sold only in sets, to good quality single-pigment paints. It’s sort-of an unfortunate classification leftover from an earlier age of paint-making and marketing, you just have to pick and choose. And your subject matter and personal-style also makes a difference.

                                            Radical Fundemunsellist

                                            #957519
                                            contumacious
                                            Default

                                                contumacious, I’m wondering which white do you use with Georgian? I think finding one without zinc is a challenge. Those from Schmincke with barium sulfate?

                                                I am in the process of trying to find an inexpensive one with a low ratio of Zinc that I can modify with some other materials to help reduce the “Zinc Problems”. Blick’s Studio oil Titanium White is less expensive than Georgian and contains 15% Zinc, fairly low but I would prefer 5% or less as the base material to which I would then add something, though I don’t know yet what that would be other than mixing in some lead white.

                                                So far the most likely candidate for lower cost and zero zinc, short of making my own, is Lukas 1862 Opaque White made with Lithopone PW5 only. Logically the 200ml tubes should be $16 or so since the 37mm ones are $5.89 from Jerry’s and the other colors that are also the same price for 37mm are all $16 for the 200’s, but they don’t stock it and I can’t find them anywhere else. Less than half the cost of the Williamsburg but the 200ml tube cost per ml would be more than half again the cost per ml vs the 37mm Lukas. I am going to try a tube and compare it to the WB.

                                                #957514
                                                monet63
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                                                    I am in the process of trying to find an inexpensive one with a low ratio of Zinc that I can modify with some other materials to help reduce the “Zinc Problems”.

                                                    Pebeo, in its XL line, doesnt use PW4: eliminated it many years ago, when they optimized the pigment stock. On that occasion they also developed an “imitation zinc white”, based on PW6 only.
                                                    If you use their zinc-free titanium white, my advice is to add about 1% (by volume) of PW4, already active even in those percentages.
                                                    :wave:


                                                    Mimmo Ceccarelli - Painter
                                                    https://www.facebook.com/ceccarellimimmo/

                                                    #957520
                                                    contumacious
                                                    Default

                                                        Good to know on the Pebeo.

                                                        I tried to edit my last post above, but waited too long. Here is what I was going to post with some more info.

                                                        I am really liking the way the Lithopone white handles, so I am leaning towards that rather than a Zinc free Titanium white. So far the most likely lower cost candidate for a PW5 paint with zero zinc, short of making my own, is Lukas Studio Opaque White, or their Artist level 1862, both made with made with Lithopone PW5 only. I have not tried either of them but plan to compare the two. The Studio version is about the same cost as the Georgian.

                                                        If you are wanting Titanium white with zero zinc, again it would be the Lukas Studio line (added: Pebeo XL) for the lowest cost with no zinc. The artist grade Lukas and the M Graham both have a zinc free Titanium at a higher cost but still less than the Williamsburg.

                                                        #957515
                                                        monet63
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                                                            If you are wanting Titanium white with zero zinc, again it would be the Lukas Studio line (added: Pebeo XL) for the lowest cost with no zinc. The artist grade Lukas and the M Graham both have a zinc free Titanium at a higher cost but still less than the Williamsburg.

                                                            Lukas, in both its oil color lines (1862 and Studio), although not indicating the presence of PW4, uses it. This behavior is also common to other manufacturers, though not many.
                                                            I’ve no problems with zinc oxide, but I think anyone should be able to make his choices with all the cards on the table.
                                                            :wave:


                                                            Mimmo Ceccarelli - Painter
                                                            https://www.facebook.com/ceccarellimimmo/

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