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January 22, 2013 at 2:29 pm #990535
Hi,
I don’t usually post in this forum but need your advice on the white nights paints.
I normally work on more time consuming work in graphite and acrylics but would like to get a few watercolours to do some quicker studies/paintings, practise colour mixing, pen & ink work, sketchbook stuff, etc.
In acrylics I normally work in a limited palette of
cad red light,
cad yellow light,
rose,
phthalo blue (green shade),
yellow ochre,
raw umber,
paynes grey
and white. (Plus I may sneak a couple more colours in sometimes – burnt umber, ultramarine).I’d like to keep to the same colour palette if possible and do all my own mixing. As I don’t really know much about watercolours would this same palette of colours work with the white nights paints or would the colours just become too muddy?
Would there be any other colours you would recommend as good colour mixers from this brand? I noticed from the colour charts I have seen that some of the colours seem to look quite similar or fairly weak in colour.
Is it better to have more colours at your disposal with watercolours generally? I wondered about getting the 24 set but I think I would probably not use most of the colours listed in that particular set, so I would prefer just getting replacement pans in the colours I actually want. (I do have an empty W&N Cotman 45 half pan set box which should hold the White Night full pans successfully, I hope).
Silly question alert – do the replacement pans actually come in a plastic pan or are you expected to purchase one of their sets first and refill the pans in that once they become empty. When I did an internet search I found a picture of the one of pans unwrapped from silver foil and it didn’t show the paint in a plastic pan. If this is the case then I wouldn’t be able to just buy replacement pans without purchasing one of their sets first.
Could you also please advise which would be the closest blue to Phthalo Blue (green shade). Would this be Azure Blue? Quite a few of the blues seemed to appear quite similar on the colour charts.
And lastly (for those of you who are still awake), I found a website named st petersburg watercolours.com who seem to sell the pans quite cheaply, and the sets too. Has anyone used this website and would you recommend it?
Thanks for your help.
Pam
Please feel free to visit my website/facebook & twitter pages by following the link below:
http://www.pamelagallimore.co.ukJanuary 22, 2013 at 3:02 pm #1179721Whew, Pam, a LOT of questions! Which, most of which I can’t answer, but I can talk with you about color mixing and send you a Thread about pan sizes.
To have successful mixes in watercolor, one should have at least one warm and one cool shade of each primary color: Red Yellow Blue. And it would be good if the colors you choose are the same intensity. That way you can choose if you wish to mix a warm blue with a cool yellow or a warm yellow. The results will be different for each.
If you want to do VERY quick color sketches, you will want to buy more intense colors, so you won’t have to glaze? Since I’m unable to do plein air (however hard I’ve tried: its a health thing) plein air artists will be better able to help you with color intensity choices. I can say that you can mix your own Payne’s Gray (my mix is Prussian Blue + Alizarin Crimson, which makes a transparent Payne’s Gray). White is a color not usually associated with watercolor since we save the white of our paper. But, it is nice to have on your palette if you wish to mix a pastel-looking opaque color.
The size of pans is a very good question, in fact, there was a recent thread about different pan sizes (yes, they do VARY! ) Here is that thread:
https://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1298975&referrerid=134492
Oh, I guess an very quick explanation about Warm/Cool:
Reds: If your Red is an orangey shade, it will be Warm (a Red with more Yellow in it). Cool Reds would encompass Perm Rose, Alizarin Crimson, etc., (a Red with more Blue in it).
Blues: The best Warm Blue I own is Ultramarine Deep. Cobalt Blue is warmish also. A Cool Blue will have more Green in it: Prussian Blue is the best example I can think of. There a different shades of Thalo Blues, ones with more Yellow (Warm) or ones with more Green (Cool)
Yellows: Much easier: The ones with a green tinge are Cool (i.e., Lemon Yellow, Areleons). Those with a more orangish look to them are warm (i.e., Gamboge).
I’m sure you will be getting many more responses to your questions!
Margarete
When he, the Spirit of truth is come...he will be your Guide... Holy Bible (Old and New Testament)
Under the Concrete are Flowers Yet to be Born...from a Chilean PoemJanuary 22, 2013 at 3:29 pm #1179718The replacement pans do come in a plastic pan.
http://www.artifolk.co.uk/images/products/1057×300.jpg
Not all of the White Nights paints are lightfast so do your homework before you buy them.
January 22, 2013 at 4:08 pm #1179719Welcome to the watercolour forum!
I certainly understand your need to minimize how much paint you’ll need to purchase since watercolour isn’t your primary medium. It does behave a little differently than your acrylics.
Firstly, for a limited palette, I wouldn’t recommend the cadmiums because they are opaque…
I agree with Margarete about her recommendation of a warm/cool selection of colours…
So… my suggested colours would be:
Ultramarine Blue – PB29
Phthalo Blue – PB15:0
or Cerulean Blue – PB36Permanent Alizarin – PV19 or PR264
Napthol Red – PR112 (M. Graham)Hansa Yellow – PY97
New Gamboge – PY153Burnt Sienna – PBr7
With this basic set, you can mix a very wide range of colours. Be sure to check your pigment numbers because Paint Names vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Then, if you decide that you enjoy what you’re doing with these, add more colours!
Happy painting!
Char --
CharMing Art -- "Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art." Leonardo DaVinci
January 22, 2013 at 5:05 pm #1179724I’ve used the St Peterburg website, never had a problem, the pans are slightly larger than the “normal” ones , but they’ll probably jam in ok. The colours are ok, the earth tones, tend to harden pretty quick, so keep them moist if you can. I found the Cobalt Blues to both be terrible, and some of the colours are def. not lightfast. But they are really cheap, and you’ll learn what you do and don’t like very quickly. I like and use their Titian Red, Carmine and Russian green, in the box of 28 pans I use everyday. I’ve no idea what their brushes are like though.
All the best, LeslieJanuary 22, 2013 at 7:40 pm #1179720Firstly, the White Nights pans are full size pans and will NOT fit a Cotman Half pan set, unless its the metal set – even then I seriously doubt it as the White Nights pans are bigger on the bottom.
This needn’t be a problem. It’s easy to fit pans into any metal tin, eg. A metal pencil tin, with a little blob of Bluetack :wink2:
You should find all the colours you want at Ken Bromley
And the list of colours with their pigment numbers at The St Petersburg Website UK – I don’t know what they are like to deal’with, but Ken Bromley and Jackson’s are very reliable :wink2:
Regarding the colours you choose, it’s perfectly Ok to have a limited palette in Watercolour – your choice of colours look fine, go for the Quinacridone Rose (PR122) rather than the Rose as it looks to be PR81 which is completely fugitive.
You can check pigments and their lightfastness here The Colour of Art Pigment Database
January 22, 2013 at 11:25 pm #1179722There is one more thing….I bought a couple pans of Yarka paint from Blicks (not the White Knights brand – Yarka carries a number of brands). I was exploring cost-effective Quinacridone colors.
So, they were very nice, BUT they came moist and stayed moist. It was some years later and I wanted to move them out of the pan into some plastic wrap (put the plastic wrap around them, wrap a piece of paper round them with the brand and pigment number, and use the pan for something else). It didn’t work, it was way too moist. Good news, no mold or anything. Just sticky/moist. I ran a brush over them later, still good, and very pretty paint. I prefer paints that dry on the palette and in the wells.
Margarete
When he, the Spirit of truth is come...he will be your Guide... Holy Bible (Old and New Testament)
Under the Concrete are Flowers Yet to be Born...from a Chilean PoemJanuary 23, 2013 at 9:40 am #1179723Thanks everyone for your replies so far.
Margarete – thanks for all the colour info and pan size thread. The ‘Quin’ colours should be transparent and more zingy in colour. I may try some of these myself.
CharM – good colour suggestions. Perhaps the cadmium colours may appear a bit dull. I do love my earth colours though but perhaps I can mix better versions from the limited palette you have suggested, if I can perhaps find the similar colours within the White Nights colours.
StewGold – thanks for replying about the St Petersburg website. I still feel a bit hesitant about using it though – not sure why. I was also going to try a cobalt blue but I won’t bother now.
Aderynglas – the cotman box I have is basically a plastic version of the metal set up box and will take both half and full pans. However, I have a sneaky feeling that the White Nights pans may be bigger too. Thanks for the bluetack idea – problem solved! The pigment database is a bit eye boggling at the moment, will need to take another look when I have more time.
Pam
Please feel free to visit my website/facebook & twitter pages by following the link below:
http://www.pamelagallimore.co.ukJanuary 23, 2013 at 10:03 am #1179725Very interesting thread and thanks Adernynglas for providing those links, good information. If any of you are using the Yarka paints would you consider setting up a test sheet for the watercolor lightfast testing we are doing?
Bill"The object isn't to make art, it's to be in that wonderful state which makes art inevitable." (Robert Henri)
April 29, 2019 at 5:32 am #1179726Now I intend to go to Russia right up to mid-July. In my opinion, every artist should see it with his own eyes and be inspired by a unique atmosphere. At the same time a music festival https://petersburg.expert/%5B/URL%5D is held, the weather is good. Expansion for the artist and the person of creative nature.
Romance, bridges, architecture, music, bright colors and bright nights. So I want to pick up the brush and the canvas and create! -
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