Pumice powders.

[the drover’s dog]

My goodness Sue, you must think me so rude. I did immediately reply to your kind offer, but somehow it hasn’t appeared here. WC swallowed it!!

I would be very keen to see your surfaces, but the postage would be expensive to Australia. Thanks for offering to share.

Dale

Dale :clear:
C & C always welcome.
_________________________________

[Sueb]

Dale, No way. I know you have been very busy lately. Actually, I had in mind sending it as a postcard. It wouldn’t be big; just a tinted postcard size surface. If you change your mind just me know.

Sue B
C & C always welcome.

[Watusie3]

Question for you DIY folks: how do you get the abrasive particles distributed evenly across the support? I like Wallis but find the price outrageous – can I really make something similar myself?

[the drover’s dog]

You most certainly can make your own sanded surfaces. The trick is to paint three or four coats, each one in a different direction. Let it dry between coats. Use a wide gesso or hake brush or a foam roller or brush.

Easiest option is to use the Colourfix Primer or I believe in the US they have something similar made by Golden (?) You can paint three coats on any surface such as masonite or matt board, but seal the back too with an acrylic sealer to prevent moisture penetration and future warping. Not much point in painting on Arches Watercolour paper as it is just as expensive as a readymade sanded surface.

These are not the rock bottom cheapest options, hence my wish to experiment. You can use any form of clean grit in any acrylic liquid. I’m thinking of trying Bondcrete with one of the grits. Not sure if you have Bondcrete in the US. It’s a waterproofing agent used by builders and handymen and very cheap to buy in bulk. I am sure you have acrylic Woodglue, which is the same thing. Just add Pumice, clean fine sand, Aluminium Oxide, finest glass beads etc. You could even use a matt acrylic house paint with added grit, though I’m not sure how the acid levels are on any of these, but shouldn’t think they differ from what we buy in little jars and bottles labelled “Artist’s” whatever, which immediately puts a huge premium on it.

Do a search for pastel surfaces here on WC. You will learn a lot.

Dale

Dale :clear:
C & C always welcome.
_________________________________

[Sueb]

The reason I am making surfaces is that I have a big stash of watercolor and other papers to use. I use usually 4 coats, applying as Dale stated, allowing to dry between coats. When I use matboard, I wax the edges and do not paint the back. I am also using wood panels and when I use a wood panel, I do not paint the sides or back. This was per the panel manufacturers’s recommendation.

It’s labor intensive and I’d just rather buy the Wallis or other papers I like. But I am thrifty about some things and have lots of surfaces to experiment with. Then if I have a painting that doesn’t work out, I can toss it and not feel bad about the waste. I figured it’s already been recyled once.

Some people like the Colorfix primer. I don’t and add extra grit to it. I just like to mix it all up when I am using up my excess supplies.

Sue B
C & C always welcome.

[Watusie3]

I don’t really care for Colorfix – can I make something as sandpaper-y as Wallis?

[Sueb]

IMHO, the 4F pumice has a simlar feel. I just pulled out a piece of Wallis and compared it to something I have on my easel right now and it had a similar feel to me. My piece I used as a comparison is the 4F pumice on Multimedia Art Board. Just my opinion. Everyone has their own preference for surface, pastels, easels, you name it. We never agree on everything.

If time is an issue and you don’t already have the materials on hand, I would just buy the Wallis. I have always thought it was worth every penny. It’s a fine product.

Sue B
C & C always welcome.

[PETE K]

I got the extra fine. and find it’s pretty ruff. I also thin out the gesso and add quite a bit of pumice. and put two coats on. on some ruffer watercolour paper I’ll put two coats of reg. gesso sand it some to make the paper smoother. then the tinted geosso with the pumic in it. on masionite I’ll put 6 coats of geaao like if i were to paint oil’s or acrylics on it then the pumice mix.

PETE
my blog ....................

[Islandgurl]

Blick has a 4lb bag of marble dust for around $6.00 which is a bargain!
I’ve been meaning to try it out for some time now…I love to work on Ampersand Pastelbord and have tried to duplicate the surface….. I’m thinking marble dust might be used to manufacture them.

Suzanne

[robertsloan2]

I don’t really care for Colorfix – can I make something as sandpaper-y as Wallis?

I’ve just bought a jar of Colourfix Supertooth, which is coarser and has more tooth than regular Colourfix. I’ll have to try some on watercolor paper to find out if it’s as toothy as Wallis but it’s definitely a move in that direction. Only comes in clear, but clear is the most useful color anyway.

Robert A. Sloan, proud member of the Oil Pastel Society
Site owner, artist and writer of http://www.explore-oil-pastels-with-robert-sloan.com
blogs: Rob's Art Lessons and Rob's Daily Painting

[murphe]

I use fine pumice as well as I don’t want my fingers stripped to the bone. I actually use very little pumice added to acrylic gesso with a little water and a small amount of paint to tint the surface as needed.
The pumice feels rougher for it’s size than the marble powder I bought. Perhaps it has something to do with the shape of the particles but I’ve never bothered looking under one of my microscopes to see.

I have other grits for polishing but they are all much finer, like sub micron cerium oxide so have never bothered trying any of them.

Has anyone thought of trying the likes of powdered cork, perhaps over the top of wet gesso? It would surely be much gentler on the hands but making a suede like surface might be difficult.

[flowergirl]

I was thinking about this early this morning. You could go to a glass supplies place, one that sell glass “frit” to glass beadmakers or other glass blowers or fusers. It can be purchased ground as fine as powder, sort of “sugar” consistancy, or more coarse, up to big chunks. Different manufacturers have different labeling for their sizes. It is very inexpensive and silica is basically inert, so shouldn’t affect pH at all.

But don’t breathe it into your lungs. (Of course.)

I could send you some. It’s cheap. But the postage!

Is your weather calming sdown?

If one uses glass frit when making pastel supports, what will this do to your hands when blending? Don’t want to bleed all over the painting! I do know a great supplier of frit in Seattle – Bedrock Industries. They sell it in several grades and it’s all recycled glass. I guess it wouldn’t matter what color glass is used.
Sharon in Vermont

"To see is to forget the name of the thing one sees"
Paul Valery

[Capra_Aegagrus]

I’m a professional artist wanting to experiment with pastel on canvas. I’m very glad to of found a local with the same problem. My problem is finding a supplier of pumice. The art stores are WAY to expensive, I’ve seen 1 kilogram of pumice go for $26!! It all comes from Langridge art supplies who hold a monopoly here on raw artist materials. Their prices are ridiculously high.

Anyway I’m trying to find a local shop that supplies pumice, I know lapidaries, potters, woodworkers, panel beaters and soap-makers use it, but I can’t find any local shops. I’m tempted to buy it from a gem cutter supplier in Queensland, they sell all grades of pumice for $11 a kilogram, even with postage it would be cheaper than anything found at Senior Art Supplies or Melbourne art supplies.

Dale, I used to do quite a bit of sculpture and mould making, marble dust can be found at mould maker suppliers. Barnes in Richmond and Dalchem in Cheltenham should supply marble dust. The price may of changed, but it used to be around $15 a kilogram.

You can’t believe how furious I am getting at the prices of art supplies in Australia. All these materials are waste by-products, the fact that they have a price is insane. Go anywhere in Italy or Greece and you’d find pumice on the ground, its like paying money for dirt. Go to a marble quarry and you’d find the dust everywhere. I used to do cold cast bronze statues. The bronze powder used in the resin is a material that cannot be recycled by the bronze works, it used to fill rubbish dumps. Now that artists use it, its $40-70 a kilogram.

Main Website
Work direct to pavement
My street project thread

[the drover’s dog]

Markus I just googled ‘lapidary supplies’ +.au – and up came a couple that stocked pumice at a better price than the art supply shops here. Try this one: http://www.shell-lap.com.au/%5B/URL%5D Beware the suppliers for soaps and beauty scrubs. Their prices are just as bad as the art shops. You can buy it cheaper by the ton in Sth.A., but I think that might be a tad of overkill. The lapidiary mobs are still way too expensive for “dirt”, but thems the breaks when you live in the antipodies and don’t have any active volcanoes handy.

I did find our that the Colourfix papers and primers contain Aluminium Oxide as their grit and not pumice. You can find it listed in the rock hounds catalogues too. I posted here though because I didn’t know what grade of pumice or Alum. Ox., to order.

Just looked at your website. Plurry ell! Why waste all that gorgeous work on pavement, particularly in a wet Summer. It would break my heart to see all that wash away.

Markus, you need to put your country in your postings here. Go to My WC at the upper left of this page and attend to it so we know by the flag on the right and the bit under your membership name, just where the post originates. Makes it easier for everyone here to respond in the most appropriate manner.

I really am seriously considering going down to one of the local Murray River beaches here and bringing home some sand and playing around with that and Bondcrete or other PVA glue. Trouble is that the river is too high and all the good sand has been under water since October:D. Actually I can always look for the nearest orange grove and go and pinch a bit of the sandhill the oranges are growing on. I was just checking them out the other day looking for good plein air sites for my art group. Never thought to souvenir some dirt.

Good luck,

Dale

Dale :clear:
C & C always welcome.
_________________________________

[chewie]

i have a bag of the marble dust, I think from blicks and its way too fine for my liking. mixed it with gesso and it feels like bone, and didnt’ hold many layers.

I like wallis but colorfix is my fav. of all. I do like the primer in a jar, I paint on 4 coats with just a hardware brush. I use the middle cut-outs of ragmat, for plein airs. they do curl, so painting the backside with something helps bend it back. I like painting it on every which way, it can lead to some fun results not possible any other way. wet techniques work on it too. and I love having color choices.

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]A rich person is not one who has the most, but is one who needs the least.
--- "Interview with God" (author unknown)
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