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A different question is why one refers to “reviews”. Eg. Arches the papermaker has been around for something like 500 years, Winsor have probably been grinding out watercolors for 150 years or so, and the opinion that some snotty 20 year old is going to have of either product range after a sheet’s worth of sketches is not likely to be very significant. Indications of quality control issues reported on the forum however do have a meaning, as does an indepth study like Handprint.
So, IMHO, the main reason why a reader would wish for reviews of *established* products is for a panoramic comparison rather than any judgement of value.
New items like the portable painter are a different story.
There has been some controversy in France over a period of years surrounding Bordeaux wine reviews by Robert Parker – I believe that the net effect has been to wreck the Bordeaux wine for normal drinkers, and everyone I know seems to be enjoying Burgundy wines instead, these days. Let us hope there will be no Parker of the watercolors!
Edmund
No one is looking up information for products that are on the market for 150 years. But a lot of people are interested to get some information for a new line of papers or paints.
The issue is that the approach that both the companies and the people who are testing new products have is wrong.
The companies gift products to those who have the larger number of followers, those in their turn in order not to dissatisfy the companies give positive reviews without in some cases bother to test the products.
I wanted for instance to get accurate and objective information about Hannemuhle ( have I spell the name right? ) papers. This is practically impossible as Hannemuhle has sent packages of its whole range of papers to any blogger existed online who in their turn are giving positive reviews without even testing seriously the papers. And I’m saying “seriously” because making swatches on a paper is not a serious way to test it. They don’t paint on the papers that is what I mean in order to indicate the pros and the cons.
They don’t even indicate the differences between the different kinds of papers of this particular brand ( which is one of the many).
I wasn’t able for instance to get information about what are the differences between the Turner and the Leonardo papers, other that they are both 100% cotton and that they don’t buckle when you paint swatches on them. The cartridge paper that I use for sketching doesn’t buckle either when I’m painting on it swatches but this doesn’t say anything about its quality, its characteristics and its handling when I want to use it for something more than colouring paint sample squares on it.
I wasn’t able to find any review that would indicate the slightest of disadvantages not even what are actually the differences between the papers that are marketed under different names.
So how am I supposed to choose a paper when no one wants to dissatisfy the kind people of Hannemuhle company that gifts papers?
And what is the point of making the a any review if that review doesn’t give information about the characteristics that probably interest the potential buyers of these papers.
What is the paper good for, what is its handling, what is its sizing, how it reacts on wet on wet washes, how it absorbs water and paint, how it looks when it is dried etc.I don’t have of course any problem with this particular company, I brought it here as an example, one of the many paper manufacturers who do the same thing.
Their approach for getting an evaluation for their products is right but the final result in pointless as I as a potential buyer will never get the information I need in order to consider seriously to buy the product.There are of course those who will buy a product either way because they will be influenced by the one or the other blogger or vlogger. But how seriously can someone take people that buy stuff just for the sake of doing so? These are the kind of buyers who prevent companies from improving their products, because they purchase the products in blind, they don’t actually use them, they suggest the products to their friends and then the market is filled with crappy and defective art materials, because no one bothered to give a honest and objective review of the style ” this paper lacks of quality on this or that characteristic, it works well with this or that technique. Improve it on this or that” .
With such an approach is not to wonder why the market was first filled with defective Fabriano papers and this became known much later. This happened because no one of those who are spending their time making tests and giving reviews bothered to make a serious test and honest review when it had to do it. When the first butches of new Fabriano paper hit the market.
Then it was way too late to change something.Some products become the “industry standard” ad when new products come along it is inevitable that they are compared with the “standard”.
Doug
We must leave our mark on this worldMarialena, send me an MP with your address, please.
I can send you samples of:
–[B] Montva[/B]l 300gr Cold pressed
– [B]Moulin du Roy[/B] 300 gr Hot presed
– [B]Hahnemühle:[/B]
Leonard 600gr cold pressed
Akademie Andalucia 500gr rough
Le Rouge 325gr cold pressed
Bamboo Mixed Media 265 gr
Harmony 300gr cold prese, rough and hot pressed– [B]Fabriano [/B]
Artistico 300gr
300gr 25% coton– [B]Silberburg[/B] 140gr, very rough – better for alla prima
– [B]Atelier du Papier[/B] – Vale de Sorgue – 300gr 25% coton
Let me know
Thank you very much my dear Maria for your kind offer ( how kind of you
:)) but this thread is not about getting samples of paper to test, though I wouldn’t say that I’m not interested for the Silberburg and Atelier du Papier that are completely unknown to me brands! I’m a well know paper addict. ( it would be more accurate to call me a paper junkie! )This thread is about discussing about how manufacturers promote their art materials and how the tactics that they follow impact the sales.
The sales are based on the reviews, but when the reviews become subjective because the products are gifted ( in other words are sponsored indirectly ) then there is nothing to guide the potential buyers on what are the best for them purchases.
If we don’t address the matter here, then the manufacturers will not be able to get informed about this and they will not be able to do something to change their approach on how they promote their products.
Regarding my approach to the matter. I have occasionally wrote here my experiences and impressions on various different paper products, including the Moulin du Roy, Fabriano Artistico and some other papers but I wouldn’t call my self a professional reviewer.
When I buy something for the first time I test it and I share here and on my blog my impressions positive or negative. But as my budget is limited and the types of paper that are available to me are limited too, I don’t have the luxury to buy continuously in order to test new papers and art materials and I prefer to stick to those that worked better for me.
If I consider though something completely crap then I say it in public for the other artists to know and do their own tests or at least make a research before they consider to buy something that seems that doesn’t work. Of course something that didn’t work for me, might work for someone else. But some things are crappy either way so it is good to mention it.
But first you have to work on a paper, I mean make a painting or something in order to see what its pros and cons.You are welcome, Marialena.
Atelier du Paper is made 10km from where I live.
Silbberburg is a german brand.
Marialena, not knowing about all properties of a paper is what gives us the excuse to buy them all
– sorry, my dear Marialena, I could not prevent myself.;) But I see what you point is. I am toomuch of a beginner to be able to enter seriously on the discussion.
Even if I am a paper junkie, too, I am not experienced enough in their usage (watercolour paper wise), to tell which properties would be interesting for me to know before buying it, other than if animal free sizing, or not.Maria - Made in Portugal
"Really I don't like human nature unless all candied over with art" - Virginia Woolf
https://womenwagepeace.org.il/en/You are welcome, Marialena.
Atelier du Paper is made 10km from where I live.
Silbberburg is a german brand.
Hm.. interesting..!
Marialena, not knowing about all properties of a paper is what gives us the excuse to buy them all
– sorry, my dear Marialena, I could not prevent myself.;) Yeap… But imagine if something similar was expected from you whenever you wanted to buy a cellphone.
I mean that the cellphones come with some specifications.. you know in advance what you are going to buy.
Nothing similar happens though with the papers, though both papers and cellphones are products . The cellphone buyer knows what he is going to buy in advance. The paper buyer, who on top of that relies on the quality of the paper the quality of his work, doesn’t.But I see what you point is. I am toomuch of a beginner to be able to enter seriously on the discussion.
Even if I am a paper junkie, too, I am not experienced enough in their usage (watercolour paper wise), to tell which properties would be interesting for me to know before buying it, other than if animal free sizing, or not.It has nothing to do with your experience. It has to do with how art materials manufacturing companies deal with their customers.
The art materials don’t come with complete specifications. They don’t come with health hazard warnings. They don’t have steady quality and the manufacturers rely on the hype that their products will gain in time, by gifting samples to the -so called- “influencers”. Who in their turn are getting the “gifts” and then thank them by giving positive reviews.
You raise a really interesting question, Marialena. Ask a hundred Artists a question, you’ll get a hundred different answers.
Honestly, I take [B]all[/B] reviews with a grain of salt.
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I am on a low salt diet
so reading many of the opinions is bad for my heart pressure
I am on a low salt diet
so reading many of the opinions is bad for my heart pressure
Char --
CharMing Art -- "Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art." Leonardo DaVinci
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