Home › Forums › Explore Media › Watercolor › The Learning Zone › Pan watercolors; Grumbacher, Pelikan, Talens?
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March 3, 2010 at 11:48 am #988457
I’ve use tubes exclusively until I tried my nephew’s Cretacolor pan set. It was so convenient I want one too. I don’t want to get WN pans at $6 a pan, so has anyone found a decent, inexpensive brand?
Locally I can get Grumbacher, Pelikan, Talens, maybe a few others.
March 3, 2010 at 12:20 pm #1135896A very good way is to make your own pans!
You can buy empty pans from daniel smith and fill them up with your tubes and let them dry. Then whenever you paint with them, just spritz them with water and they should be nice and moist in a few minutes!
PS: better yet, the cheapest way would be to get one of those empty plastic watercolor palettes (which you can find just about anywhere…) and squeeze some your your tubes in the empty sections/slots (can’t find the right word…)March 3, 2010 at 12:27 pm #1135881Hi Alex1,
From those that you mentioned I tried Talens Rembrandt watercolors, both as pans and in tubes. They are really nice watercolors and I like them very much. Also the tube paint set very nicely in the pans so you can easily make your own pan set.
I also use pans and find them quite handy. I usually make my own, and currently my palette is mix of Schmincke (most of my colors), Talens Rembrandt, few W&N, Maimeri and Lefranc & Bourgeois. I find that the pans I make from tube paints work just the same for me as pan watercolors you buy. I have them both and they are same to me. So, you might also consider making your own pans from the paints you already have.Alma
March 4, 2010 at 2:33 am #1135901agree with the above suggestions, buy the tube paint and put in foldup palettes….there are lots of discussion here about palette type/brands…and 1/2 or full size pans….
i also use pill boxes, they often fit comfortably in an empty tin, so that is another cheap alternative.
as for the paints you mentioned, i have used pelican and found them very good, in fact they were the brand my teacher at the time insisted we purchase for the classes. since then i use mainly m.graham and w&n
you will find heaps of info on the forum here about brands of paint as well
good luckNow is the only time you own. Live, love, toil with a will.
March 4, 2010 at 4:12 pm #1135882I use Talens Rembrandt pans and love the set. The big advantage is that Talens Rembrandt tube paints are the same formula as the pan paints, so you can refill empty pans with Talens tube paint if you live in the USA, where Rembrandt replacement pans have to be special ordered. Dick Blick carries Rembrandt Talens tubes. The other great thing is the Rembrandt tube prices–their 20ml tube of Ultramarine Blue costs $6.88 while the 15ml tube of Schmincke is $12.99, which is nearly 3 times the cost of Talens Rembrandt!
Finally (excuse me, readers who have seen me post this before) one of the most popular brands of tube watercolor, Winsor Newton, does not fill their tubes with the same formulation as their pans. This means the once the tube paints have dried out in a pan or palette, some of them are hardened for the rest of astronomical time! Yes, I know some painters have success spritzing them before starting to paint, but my experience has been, that never works.
I am happy to see that more painters are discovering how much more convenient the pans are. It’s puzzling that tubes are more popular in the US, but not in Europe.March 5, 2010 at 3:39 pm #1135895I can’t recommend the Pelikan paints. Someone in my evening class has them and they are not like watercolours at all (he does have the ones labelled as watercolours, not the school kid kind). They are opaque and dull. More like tempera or (low quality) gouache.
If you can get them where you live, the Schmincke Akadamie (student quality) are quite good.
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juliajulia
March 5, 2010 at 4:37 pm #1135900Hi,
I have tried Pelikan and Prang pan color sets while in college. While Pelikan may offer more colors in their set, the colors are not as bright as the colors you can produce with Prang. Also, my Pelikan set tended to get mold growths but Prang doesn’t. Both sets I have tried have undergone daily abuse of being stored and transported while still not completely dry. Has to do with our daily renderings at school. Have no time to air them out properly.
But if you want really bright not so expensive watercolors, I’ve found Sakura paints to be the best. I’m not sure if they have it in pans though. I’ve always used the tubed ones. You can improvise though and just squirt your tubed colors into your empty pans. I’ve found Sakura more transparent than the others.
But student grade watercolors have a tendency to fade or change color overtime. What may seem a good cheap investment at first, you may regret later on when you witness them losing their brilliance over time.
Karen
March 6, 2010 at 8:20 am #1135888i must say even Talens Van Gogh series is nice product.
March 6, 2010 at 2:12 pm #1135890i must say even Talens Van Gogh series is nice product.
Agreed. Depending upon what you’re doing they might even be a better choice. I use Rembrandt for almost all of my studio work, but I very often turn to Van Gogh for bright (almost to the point of being non-natural) paintings. Van Gogh would be my first choice for illustrating a childrens book, for example.
Justin Maas, SFCA, SCA, PDVC www.justinmaas.com[/url]
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March 6, 2010 at 2:15 pm #1135891I use Talens Rembrandt pans and [B]love[/B] the set. The big advantage is that Talens Rembrandt tube paints are the same formula as the pan paints, so you can refill empty pans with Talens tube paint
Most brands use the same pigments in their tubes as well as their pans. Rembrandt does say “the same formula” in their literature, but Id be willing to be dollars for donuts that there’s slightly different binders in both. I do exactly as you’re describing (fill up my pans with tube rembrandt) and there is a marked difference in how they “reactivate” – its subtle and its not a bid deal (I always start off a painting session by spraying down my palette before i start) but they are not ‘exactly’ the same.
Justin Maas, SFCA, SCA, PDVC www.justinmaas.com[/url]
Follow me on Instagram Maas.Art on Instagram
Facebook: Facebook Gallery[/url]
March 6, 2010 at 6:18 pm #1135883Hi Justin,
Regarding the Rembrandt tube and pan formulas– I am only going by what the Talens customer service lady in Holland emailed me when I asked the question. (I’m no chemist, so I can’t verify anything.)
-KarenMarch 7, 2010 at 11:51 am #1135889Agreed. Depending upon what you’re doing they might even be a better choice. I use Rembrandt for almost all of my studio work, but I very often turn to Van Gogh for bright (almost to the point of being non-natural) paintings. Van Gogh would be my first choice for illustrating a childrens book, for example.
not me becouse there is not granalting pigments what i really want when if i going illustrating kids book… and at least colour chart ultramarine blue (i have painted chart) is darker than few others what i know and few other hues what i want this type works…
March 7, 2010 at 12:14 pm #1135892Hi Justin,
Regarding the Rembrandt tube and pan formulas– I am only going by what the Talens customer service lady in Holland emailed me when I asked the question. (I’m no chemist, so I can’t verify anything.)
-KarenWell, and like i said, its not technically wrong – what they use is the same pigment & pigment amounts – the paints are, in effect, the same – but the have differing amounts of binder meaning they do react (very) slightly differently.
My bigger point was that while rembrandt says on their products “the same formulation” in fact, most professional grade watercolour manafacturers do the same. This doesnt detract from Rembrandt’s excellent line (has been my choice for many many years) but they arent unique in this end.
Justin Maas, SFCA, SCA, PDVC www.justinmaas.com[/url]
Follow me on Instagram Maas.Art on Instagram
Facebook: Facebook Gallery[/url]
March 7, 2010 at 5:07 pm #1135897Re. Justin’s comment on different binders and how they re-activate.
I also suspected tubes and pans used slightly different formulations and contacted WN about this. They confirmed it and said that pans are made to dry, be re-wet, over and over.
In my own experience, while you can make your own pans, they don’t re-activate as nicely as a pan watercolor. That’s why I was so impressed with my nephew’s set.
So many good comments about Talens here, I’ll get them.
March 7, 2010 at 7:42 pm #1135884What Winsor & Newton was saying is that their tube paint and their pan paints are not the same formulation; their tube paints are not formulated to be reactivated like their pan paints are. (I know there will be disagreements here, but please bear in mind this is Winsor Newton’s statement, not my opinion). It would be interesting to find out about Schmincke. Graham I know is rewettable; the big disadvantage for me is their tube paint never dried in the pan and spills out in transit!
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