Home Forums Explore Media Digital Art Painting over printing…?

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  • #987947
    avani
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        Hi :wave:

        I’m new to this forum although some of you may recognise me from Ab/Con.:)

        Anyway, here’s my question:
        If I wanted to paint over a digi print, I believe I would need to (step 1)apply a thin Glaze over it to seal in the printing ink and then (step 2) paint and after that,(step 3) apply a gloss varnish.
        Now what exactly is a thin Glaze? What would be the chemical properties of this material, that it allows to be painted over and yet keeps the ink from bleeding or running?
        Could I simply use the acrylic gloss varnish both the times, for step.1 & step.3?
        What other alternative methods are there for the print & paint process that I have in mind? anybody tried anything like that here?
        Looking forward to hearing from you all…

        Thanks!
        avani

        avani
        "Words and pictures are yin and yang. Married, they produce a progeny more interesting than either parent." — Dr. Seuss
        www.avaniart.webs.com

        #1119314

        well there are a few variables that you have not mentioned. On what material is the print.. paper, canvas, polyfilm, etc. Second what type of ink, ink-jet, off-set or screen? if inkjet, pigment or dye.

        These questions are relevant to the adhesion of the paint to the print.

        But in general it is very possible to paint over a print and is fairly commonly done to some degree or another. Anytime you see a work noted as a “hand embellished” giclee, it is probable that the process was partial paint over print.

        cogito ergo sum --should have been
        sum est cogitavi

        #1119323
        keenart
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            If you try to paint any material over Digital Ink, it will bleed. The recommended proceedure is to silkscreen once a layer of Matte medium. This procedure will cause the contrast of the ink to darken but is the best method to keep the bleed down.

            The spray method will work, but the layer is usually not permanently attached to the substrate and can peel over time.

            Jan

            #1119315
            digitaleyes
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                I paint over my digital prints (paper & canvas) all the time. :thumbsup:

                My paper prints are pigmented prints on inkjet paper or canvas. Pigmented inks won’t run.

                The prints (paper or canvas) won’t stand scrubbing ( brush work ) without something to protect it.

                I spray them with a fixitative or an acrylic spray coating. You can get them in any arts & craft store. I then put a coat of Golden’s Fluid Mat Medium. Don’t work it in too much – let it flow. This is transparent and becomes the ground for painting.

                Hope this helps.

                #1119316
                avani
                Default

                    Thanks MvdLinden, Keenart, Digitaleyes for your quick replies :)

                    Ok…I’m going to bother you some more if you don’t mind…

                    Firstly, sorry I forgot to mention that the material the prints are on, is paper.150 gsm. The ink is Inkjet. Printing mode digital.

                    The printer said he’s not using Flex machine or some such thing…?:confused: Also, he claims the paper is Inkjet paper.
                    He also said the ink will bleed.

                    So now what??:confused:

                    avani
                    "Words and pictures are yin and yang. Married, they produce a progeny more interesting than either parent." — Dr. Seuss
                    www.avaniart.webs.com

                    #1119324
                    keenart
                    Default

                        Yes, Inkjet paper 150 grams per meter square, depending on the paper type is equivalent to 60 to 90 pound stock paper. It has moderate strength, as it is a very short fiber and is not sized like watercolor paper. The other problem is that it may be encapsulated with talc or other synthetics that make sprays difficult to stick to the paper adequately.

                        If you are to paint on this paper I would recommend you mount on heavy board, I use 4 ply museum, an archival board. You can have the inkjet paper professionally mounted, hot wax mounting is the most preferable, but requires someone with machine and experience to do so.

                        Although Krylon makes a special protective spray for Digital Papers, I don’t like spray coatings, they will not adhere properly to the substrate. I paint directly into the Ink with a thin coat of matte medium until the whole of the images is coated. This will set the Inks and after dry I do the serious color work. This painting techniques taks a bit of pratice as not to ruin the original. This method takes time but is archival.

                        The choice is yours, how much time do you want to spend on the work, and how archival does the work need to be?

                        Jan

                        #1119317
                        avani
                        Default

                            Thanks Keenart!

                            What if I skip the hot wax mounting on archival board process and go straight for a thin coat of matt medium? Could I do that? Storage and transport is so much easier that way… Also, I avoid unnecessary expenditure, if nobody wants to buy it…

                            How do you mean “the painting technique takes a bit of practice so as not to ruin the original”? What are the difficulies that I’m likely to face while painting on a print covered with matt medium?

                            Thanks for bearing with my ignorance :)

                            avani
                            "Words and pictures are yin and yang. Married, they produce a progeny more interesting than either parent." — Dr. Seuss
                            www.avaniart.webs.com

                            #1119318
                            avani
                            Default

                                Oh, and one more thing… what do you do at the end? Do you also cover it with glass and a frame? What kind of framing is practical? with glass or without glass?

                                avani
                                "Words and pictures are yin and yang. Married, they produce a progeny more interesting than either parent." — Dr. Seuss
                                www.avaniart.webs.com

                                #1119325
                                keenart
                                Default

                                    [FONT=Times New Roman]That is really hard to do, very tricky you really need to stabilize the paper. The problem is you have a very thin paper that is normally prone to buckling very quickly when any moisture is applied. [/FONT]
                                    [FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]
                                    [FONT=Times New Roman]The only other possibility is to use an archival low tack adhesive on the backside. They make a paper transfer which I use on heavy papers, and they make a spray which I use on thin papers. This holds the paper in place until you have finished painting. Depending on the tack I may move to a more permanent mounting later. Do not soak the paper with the spray. [/FONT]
                                    [FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]
                                    [FONT=Times New Roman]Not a problem we have all been there at some point in our careers. Glad to help. [/FONT]
                                    [FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]
                                    [FONT=Times New Roman]After painting you can use a coat of Varnish, and that would allow you to mount on a substrate or in a shadow box without glass. [/FONT]

                                    Jan

                                    #1119319
                                    avani
                                    Default

                                        Yes, you’re so right. I tried brushing a sample piece of paper with the gel medium, and sure enough, it buckled right away.The printer guy says he uses Inkjet and the thickest paper he can use is 150 gsm. And yes, it’s talc coated.
                                        So then, obviously, I have to have it pasted first on a board and then brush over with gel medium… And then paint…. and then varnish,right?
                                        Also, Would Dry-pasting work in the place of hot wax mounting?
                                        Thanks Keenart… I find these technicalities quite confusing but you’re being so patient.. :)

                                        avani
                                        "Words and pictures are yin and yang. Married, they produce a progeny more interesting than either parent." — Dr. Seuss
                                        www.avaniart.webs.com

                                        #1119326
                                        keenart
                                        Default

                                            Yes, he has a small unit; the larger does 550 gm2 or about 200 lb watercolor paper. The other problem is that most of the small units do not use pigmented inks which dry a little more stable. Newer models now have a clear stabilizer that helps to dry and make the ink less soluble.

                                            Yes, I use a product called StudioTac, large sheets of dry adhesive used for design and layout. You lay the sheet on its front and lay a sheet of TAC on the backside, press or burnish and then peel the exterior sheet off and then stick it on the board and carefully press until it adheres.

                                            The more pressure you can exert the better the TAC works. Caution is important here because if you burnish with a small tool you can impress troughs into the paper and that looks bad. To get around this I have a large sheet of block linoleum mounted on 1 inch board, which you can buy for a few dollars at the art store. I rounded the edges of the linoleum to keep from impressing sharp edges into the paper and I use a big wooden mallet to impress.

                                            You might want to consider having someone do the print in a heavier paper or better yet have the print done in canvas. There are many online Printing services that can do prints pretty cheap, $20 to $80.

                                            Jan

                                            #1119320
                                            avani
                                            Default

                                                I live in India,Mumbai to be precise. I don’t have access to a lot of things here. But my framing guy does a good job of Dry pasting as I’ve got stuff done in the past from him, which was back when I was into Dry Pastel painting. So I guess I can have it done from him. He probably uses something similiar to StudioTac. But using a mallet or whatever he uses, won’t scrape the ink off, I hope…?
                                                Over here, paper prints cost about 1/4th of canvas. So I thought I”d save some money, esp. since I’m still a bit in the experimental stage.

                                                avani
                                                "Words and pictures are yin and yang. Married, they produce a progeny more interesting than either parent." — Dr. Seuss
                                                www.avaniart.webs.com

                                                #1119327
                                                keenart
                                                Default

                                                    No worry about the mallet, the method I described uses cover sheets and so on. If he is experienced with mounting he shouldn’t have problems.

                                                    Have fun above all else.

                                                    Jan

                                                    #1119321
                                                    avani
                                                    Default

                                                        Alright, for the last time, let me get this straight…
                                                        First, the pasting.
                                                        Second comes Gel medium.
                                                        Third is painting.
                                                        Fourth, the archival varnish.
                                                        Have I got the order right, now?

                                                        Thanks KeenArt!:)

                                                        avani
                                                        "Words and pictures are yin and yang. Married, they produce a progeny more interesting than either parent." — Dr. Seuss
                                                        www.avaniart.webs.com

                                                        #1119328
                                                        keenart
                                                        Default

                                                            Yes, That should do it.

                                                            One additional note of interest.

                                                            When I paint over the Inkjet Print with the matte medium, I use full strength, and small brushes. I follow the contours and colors as I paint wiping my brush frequently to discard ink buildup on the brush.

                                                            I usually start with the darkest colors as they bleed the worst. You will get a contrast change when you try to paint in the lighter areas because Inkjets spray a small amount of black over the lighter colors. This may make the color darken and look muddy but just paint over the gel when dry with colors that resemble those from the original image. When done give it a good coat of Varnish to protect the painted surface.

                                                            And, lets see what you get when done, if you don’t mind.

                                                            Jan

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