Home Forums Explore Media Oil Painting The Technical Forum Oil Painting Layering Order, Comprehensive List of Oil Mediums

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  • #1455302
    jatu
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        Hi, i’m new to WetCanvas and to oil painting, i was looking for a comprehensive list of oil mediums and when to use them for layering, following fat over lean rule, etc. I didn’t find a summary or a detailed guide, so i’m thinking i can make one for beginners, so we can have a foolproof guide on how to use oil paint in as many layers as we want. I’ve found guides on mediums up to 6 layers but i know you can use many more, and every medium has it’s own properties.

        I want to include an order respecting the rules and specifying how much time you should wait before the next layer. I know you can modify mediums proportions (modifying drying times) but in that case i’m thinking you can think of those mixtures as independent mediums.

        I know every person has it’s own preferences and can vary the order of mediums, i just want a foolproof guide for starting with layering that beginners can rely on. I know some people would argue that a list of this type would be aganist the spirit of oil painting but i think lots of us would really like it, and it’s up to you if you want to use it or not. I hope you like the idea, i think it would benefit beginners a lot.

        I made the same post on Reddit and it was removed, if you think this is wrong please tell me why. :good:

        We could contribute to this file or in comments

        https://docs.google.com/document/d/14xNr0s1-3TjemJKmzso1dQGYRaMup_D3ue6TOjNR4OM/edit?usp=sharing

        An example would be:

        1) 90% Solvent 10% Oil Paint (Beginner friendly)
        Difficulty (1-10): 1
        Total Drying Time: 4 hours
        Touch Dry: 2 hours
        Applying Time: 10 mins
        Good for (best first): tinting your canvas before starting to paint, underpainting

        2) 60% Galkyd 40% Oil Paint
        Difficulty (1-10): 5
        Total Drying Time: 40 hours
        Touch Dry: 24 hours
        Applying Time: 20 mins
        Good for (best first): Underpainting, fine color layer, tinting your canvas before starting to paint

        3) 100% Oil Paint, < 0.1 mm thick (Beginner friendly)
        Difficulty (1-10): 2
        Total Drying Time: 8 days
        Touch Dry: 5 days
        Applying Time: 8 hours
        Good for (best first): first opaque layers of color (details on later layers), fine translucent color layer (transparent tubes), final layer

        4) 80% Oil Paint, 20% Linseed Oil < 0.1 mm thick (Beginner friendly)
        Difficulty (1-10): 2
        Total Drying Time: 11 days
        Touch Dry: 7 days
        Applying Time: 8 hours
        Good for (best first): semi-transparent layers of color (details on later layers), fine translucent color layer (transparent tubes), glazing

        #1455356
        Antonin
        Default

            Hi, i’m new to WetCanvas and to oil painting, i was looking for a comprehensive list of oil mediums and when to use them for layering, following fat over lean rule, etc. I didn’t find a summary or a detailed guide, so i’m thinking i can make one for beginners, so we can have a foolproof guide on how to use oil paint in as many layers as we want. I’ve found guides on mediums up to 6 layers but i know you can use many more, and every medium has it’s own properties. I want to include an order respecting the rules and specifying how much time you should wait before the next layer. I know you can modify mediums proportions (modifying drying times) but in that case i’m thinking you can think of those mixtures as independent mediums. I know every person has it’s own preferences and can vary the order of mediums, i just want a foolproof guide for starting with layering that beginners can rely on. I know some people would argue that a list of this type would be aganist the spirit of oil painting but i think lots of us would really like it, and it’s up to you if you want to use it or not. I hope you like the idea, i think it would benefit beginners a lot. I made the same post on Reddit and it was removed, if you think this is wrong please tell me why. :good: We could contribute to this file or in comments https://docs.google.com/document/d/14xNr0s1-3TjemJKmzso1dQGYRaMup_D3ue6TOjNR4OM/edit?usp=sharing An example would be: 1) 90% Solvent 10% Oil Paint (Beginner friendly) Difficulty (1-10): 1 Total Drying Time: 4 hours Touch Dry: 2 hours Applying Time: 10 mins Good for (best first): tinting your canvas before starting to paint, underpainting 2) 60% Galkyd 40% Oil Paint Difficulty (1-10): 5 Total Drying Time: 40 hours Touch Dry: 24 hours Applying Time: 20 mins Good for (best first): Underpainting, fine color layer, tinting your canvas before starting to paint 3) 100% Oil Paint, < 0.1 mm thick (Beginner friendly) Difficulty (1-10): 2 Total Drying Time: 8 days Touch Dry: 5 days Applying Time: 8 hours Good for (best first): first opaque layers of color (details on later layers), fine translucent color layer (transparent tubes), final layer 4) 80% Oil Paint, 20% Linseed Oil < 0.1 mm thick (Beginner friendly) Difficulty (1-10): 2 Total Drying Time: 11 days Touch Dry: 7 days Applying Time: 8 hours Good for (best first): semi-transparent layers of color (details on later layers), fine translucent color layer (transparent tubes), glazing

            I think if the painter hasn’t got the direction of a painting pretty much nailed (and close to finished) after 2 (or at most 3) layers, he should probably pay more attention to conceptualization, drawing and preparation.  6 layers of paint or more?  That’s floundering.  The painter is lost.  The finished product will be way too overworked and lifeless.  That’s why painters like Sargent would scrape down an unsuccessful layer and start again.  You don’t want to let a failed layer dry and then try to paint over your problems.

            “so we can have a foolproof guide on how to use oil paint in as many layers as we want. I’ve found guides on mediums up to 6 layers but i know you can use many more, and every medium has it’s own properties.”  I’m sorry, but that’s a ridiculous working method for oil.  Look at any microscopic cross-section of a famous old painting  and you won’t see 6 or more layers of oil paint no matter how complex the finished effect is.

            Why would a painter underpaint with 60% Galkyd and 40% paint?  A greasy underpainting (Long Oil Alkyds like Galkyd are greasy – the “resin” (minus solvent) is more than 70% oil) isn’t permanent and subsequent layers may scale off because the underpainting isn’t porous enough to support more layers.

             

            #1455358
            jatu
            Default

                Hi Antonin, thank you for replying, as i posted, i’m a beginner and don’t know how when to use each medium for layering, that’s why i wanted to make the list, so i can have a reference for when to use each medium, and that’s why i made an example list and not a real one. Even if i make 3 layers, i could use only 3 items on the list and it would still be useful. But i think you may be right about using lots of layers.

                I will take into account what you said about galkyd, i thought you should use it for first layers because it dries very fast, i didn’t know about the implications of a greasy medium.

                About using lots of layers, is it ok to use more than 6 layers if i’m correcting mistakes or glazing specific parts of a painting? if that is the case maybe i would benefit from a list like the one i proposed.

                If you don’t mind, i would really appreciate if you can guide me on when to use each medium and in it’s proportions. I’m using gamblin oil tubes, gamsol, galkyd and linseed oil.

                is it ok to use galkyd over fat layers knowing it dries really fast?

                #1455364
                Antonin
                Default

                    Fast drying alkyd over less fast drying oil paint leads to cracking or scaling off.

                    If you want to mess around and experiment in your paint before you finalize, why don’t you underpaint with water-thinned matte acrylics (you can do multiple layers), let the moisture and retardants evaporate for a couple days and then finish with a layer or two of oil paint.

                    Use as little oil medium as you can get by with.  Painting with too much medium is never pleasant.  Straight oil mediums like linseed or stand oil have a  smeariness – like too much lubricant – the paint slides around and won’t obey; drying is slowed and surplus oil rises to the paint surface and yellows after drying.  Alkyd mediums have a sticky gumminess that sets in after a few minutes (when the solvent evaporates) and that’s not pleasant either.

                    #1455365
                    jatu
                    Default

                        I liked the idea about using matte acrylics, i will probably use it. I also experienced the gumminess of galkyd, didn’t like it, i think i will investigate more about galkyd uses. thank you!

                        #1455370
                        WFMartin
                        Default

                            The fat-over-lean rule is accommodated quite well by using one, specific medium for each layer of the entire painted image.  Being one who prefers the glazing process for certain subjects, I often employ many, many layers of paint.  The idea that one is violating some sort of “rule of painting” by using 3, or less layers is quite ridiculous.  Granted, SOME areas of a painting may require only 3 or 4 glaze layers, while others may require 8 or 10, or more.

                            The use of one painting medium, throughout the layers is quite well within the parameters of the fat-over-lean principle.  That is because at no time are you ever applying a leaner, more fast-drying, brittle layer over a fatter, slow-drying, flexible layer, merely because the first layer down already has a “head-start” on drying, before you apply the following layer.

                            I avoid alkyd mediums, simply because their drying is erratic, and their compatibility with  traditional oil paint is questionable.  Oh, if you decide to use alkyd paint, then, by all means …..use alkyd mediums.  Just not with traditional oil paint.

                            I have a recipe for a painting medium that is no secret, and I’ve been using it for years.  In fact, it is being marketed with my name, and photo on the label, at a specific supplier, but since the last time when I suggested its use, my words were censored, and deleted by the administrators on this site, I will ask that you Private Message me for the specifics.  It is, indeed, a great, user-friendly, oil painting medium, and I could not paint very well without it.

                            wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
                            https://williamfmartin.blogspot.com

                            #1455492
                            Ron Francis
                            Default

                                As you are a beginner, I suggest the most simple, and most robust technique.
                                If your paint needs to be less viscous for ease of manipulation, add a little linseed oil. Mix it into the paint thoroughly with a palette knife. No need for solvents or alkyds at all.
                                Paint is best without any additions at all if you can manage it. That is, it will give you the most robust paint film. Whenever adding oil, you want to add as little as possible to achieve the viscosity you need to ease manipulation.

                                Your first medium, 90% solvent, will not give you a cohesive paint film at all. All the binder will be washed away from the pigment particles and leave them loose and unbound by oil. (Pigment flocculation.)
                                If using on absorbent ground, it will act a little like watercolour I suppose, and the particles will get trapped in the ground and not be so bad, but regardless, your subsequent layer will be painted on top of loose particles which will reduce its adhesion to some degree. Maybe not significantly, but you are still reducing a weakness.
                                On top of that, you will have solvent evaporating from a large surface area, maximizing your exposure.

                                Note that when adding Galkyd (or Liquin etc.), you are adding oil to your paint and is making your paint fatter. That is, your subsequent 100% paint layer will be leaner than the previous layer containing alkyd.
                                However, the alkyd will dry faster and so is thought to be better in lower layers. One problem is that alkyds, although being less flexible than linseed initially, will retain flexibility longer than linseed over time. That is, linseed will become more brittle with age and the ‘lean over fat’ issue may raise its head at some distant time in the future.
                                60% Galkyd seems far too much. It will make your surface glossy, and a glossy surface will make it more difficult for the subsequent layer to adhere to it.
                                Too much linseed will also make your surface glossy.

                                In short, it is better to keep the process and the paint film as simple as possible.
                                I like bill’s suggestion above to use the same medium throughout, and I suggest straight linseed oil, at least until you become familiar enough with your paints to desire something that straight linseed won’t give you.

                                Ron
                                www.RonaldFrancis.com

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