My underpainting WILL NOT DRY!!!!!!?????!!!!!!!

[arourapope]

ok…..I think I am about to reveal my ignorance, but I have run into a perplexing situation. I’m doing a still-life. I did an underpainting of the still life with (oils) burnt umber, using turpenoid as a medium. I’ve never had a problem doing this sort of thing in an underpainting before, but I don’t *think* I’ve done one with burnt umber before…. Anyway, the darn thing won’t dry! It’s been at least a month since I did the underpainting, and it’s still tacky! Today I gave up in exasperation, and decided to go on and work on it, hoping that if I use fat paint (no mediums added) that it will all work out in the end. But I’m having to sacrifice alot of the detail that I normally would have wanted to keep (may not be a bad thing, in the end), and I would really like to understand why this happened. Is burnt umber just too fat of a paint to use for an underpainting? And is my painting going to do horrible things because of all of this in the end? Amazingly enough, the colors don’t seem to be muddying on the tacky underpainting, but I’m still worried. Help?
Light,
Aurora

[This message has been edited by aurorapope (edited November 14, 2000).]

Well, that's like hypnotising chickens.
[/i]~ Iggy Pop

[LDianeJohnson]

Aurora,
What color(s) did you use before with the Turpenoid with no problem? Burnt umber is a warmer color, which technically take a bit longer to dry than cool ones.
Diane

L. Diane Johnson PSA ISAP PAP-SE | Plein Air Wear |
Painting on Air Blog

[arourapope]

usually I use ultramarine blue….sometimes, though, yellow ochre.
Light,
Aurora

Well, that's like hypnotising chickens.
[/i]~ Iggy Pop

[arcitect]

Originally posted by Artistry:
[b]Aurora,
Burnt umber is a warmer color, which technically take a bit longer to dry than cool ones.
Diane[/b]

Could someone explain that to me, please? Where I am from the primary factor in how quickly a paint dries is its oil absorbtion ratio.

Burnt Umber is a relatively quick drying color, unless you mix it with Titanium white -Titanium absorbs a great deal of oil and typically uses safflower oil as a vehicle. (Safflower oil dries very slowly but does not yellow too severely, which is important when dealing with whites.)

I am guessing you used titanium white or way too much oil. Lead white is the superior underpainting white and one should avoid going excessively “fat” in an underpainting at all times.

lolpix

[arcitect]

I have Burnt Umber as PBr7 with an oil absorbtion ratio of 18-38wt/100wt, which is extremely low.

Perhaps they slipped you some asphaltum when you turned your back?

lolpix

[arourapope]

Actually, I used no white whatsoever. I only do monochromatic underpaintings. I know white is a fat pigment, and save it for last.
Light,
Aurora

Well, that's like hypnotising chickens.
[/i]~ Iggy Pop

[arourapope]

ps. I also used no oil. And what is “asphaltm”?
Aurora

Well, that's like hypnotising chickens.
[/i]~ Iggy Pop

[arcitect]

Asphaltum is an old fashioned color made of asphalt in turp, looks a little like burnt umber, but it takes eons to dry and is about as bad a paint as one can buy.

I have never had any problems with burnt umber and use it routinely. Perhaps Rob or Colin can shed some light on this one.

lolpix

[arourapope]

Well, I’m stumped. I don’t think I have any wierd paint. It’s not like the most expensive stuff on the market, but it’s done ok in every other facet I’ve used it. It’s Amsterdam Burnt Umber, BTW, if that helps at all. Do you think my painting is going to suffer from this (apart from me making a mess smudging, etc, of course ?)
Light,
Aurora

Well, that's like hypnotising chickens.
[/i]~ Iggy Pop

[arcitect]

I would hold-off on making any decisions or working on said canvas any further until you get more feedback.

Worst case scenario: you toss an underpainting in the trash. No fun, but not so very bad either.

lolpix

[arourapope]

Thanks, Arc.
Light,
Aurora

Well, that's like hypnotising chickens.
[/i]~ Iggy Pop

[Degas5]

As someone else asked, have you used this Turpenoid with any other paints previously? Perhaps it’s not the paint, but the solvent which has turned bad. Does anyone know if Turpenoid has a shelf life? Maybe you can test it on a scrap canvas using another tube color mixed with the same Turpenoid. I think it’s more likely something is wrong with the noid than the umber.

[arourapope]

Yeah, I think I will try that. I did another painting at about the same time with an underpainting of turpenoid and ultramarine blue that dried with no trouble, though. And it seems to me that it hasn’t been that long since I bought the stuff (the Turpenoid). I have been using turpenoid for years and never had a problem before……I have to admit, though, I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who doesn’t understand what’s going on with this, though…..
Light,
Aurora

Well, that's like hypnotising chickens.
[/i]~ Iggy Pop

[Degas5]

Okay, then it definitely isn’t the turpenoid; ultramarine blue is a slower drying color than burnt umber. I had a similar problem with indanthrone blue not drying and remaining tacky for almost a month; when I experienced the problem again in another painting with the same tube of indanthrone blue, I wrote the company to inquire why an average drying color would take so long to dry. Interestingly enough, they came back to me immmediately with a reply, stating that some time ago they produced a bad batch of this particular color and asked if I could send them a number imprinted under the crimp of the tube which would identify it as part of that batch. I couldn’t find the number, but they said that they would send me a new tube of that paint. They never said what went wrong in the production, but I did get an explanation. Maybe you could email the people and they can give you a plausible reason why this should occur.

——————

[arourapope]

Ahhhh, so it’s lousy paint. Well, that s**ks! I have to travel a long way to buy paint! I checked and at least that’s the only tube of Amsterdam that I have. I *thought* Burnt Umber was fast drying…..that’s one of the reasons I was surprised by this.
Ron, you say not to use mineral spirits to dilute paint…..I was using turpenoid. I assume you include this in the “mineral spirits” grouping? What do you suggest using in an underpainting? Do you go straight from the tube with a fast drying paint? I guess this all goes back to the thread on mediums, huh?
The reason I am asking is that I don’t want to use acrylic. I have stopped using turpenoid because of this experience, and I started trying Liquin. I’ve heard bad things about that stuff too, though….although I’ve been fairly pleased with some of the results I’ve gotten so far. Of course, none of the recent stuff has withstood the test of time yet. What I don’t like about Liquin is the way it makes cooler colors look like, well, like jello. It’s a bit disconcerting. Of course, once the underpainting is painted over the jello-effect leaves. But I’ve glazed with the Liquin and I just get a really jelloey painting…heheheh.
Anyway, back to the point. Is there anything that you guys know of that is a good, safe, and fast-drying medium with which to do an underpainting?
Light,
Aurora

Well, that's like hypnotising chickens.
[/i]~ Iggy Pop

[Author]

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