My paint testing thread

[ilya K]

It’s on the tubes of the paints apart from Schminke Norma and Maimeri Classico.

Eh? I even put the laptop and went to check again. I find nothing on Georgian, Rembrandt, or Van Gogh. I think that whites from Talens do specify which one, but I do not have them. Schmincke Kremserweisston – nothing on the tube but they say “safflower” on their Web site (otherwise they say it’s a mix of sunflower and linseed with more sunflower in light tones). Maimeri catalogue states clearly for Classico: “safflower for whites, linseed otherwise”. I have only one tube that says “linseed” and it’s DR Graduate.

I believe that you are from UK, so we must be getting the same paint (I am in Germany). For US, European manufacturers may be using different tubes, although all my paints have that “AP” something seal.

Ilya K
C&C always welcome

[Richard P]

Sorry you are right, I remembered incorrectly. I think it’s a combination of checking on the websites and on the tubes.

I’ve from the UK, so should have the same tubes as you.

[joshuaw]

So, with some anomalies here and there you’ve clearly raised a serious question regarding hansa pigments ability to dry and pyrrole’s ability to dry. Does PR 254 dry????

[ilya K]

So, with some anomalies here and there you’ve clearly raised a serious question regarding hansa pigments ability to dry and pyrrole’s ability to dry. Does PR 254 dry????

DR Georgian does.

Ilya K
C&C always welcome

[Richard P]

They do, just very slowly in the dark. Also they go from setting up to dry very slowly as well, compared to other colours.

[Richard P]

This set of testing helped me identify a range of pigments and brands which stayed open the longest. These paints held promise for me to use them in a palette which stays open for at least 3 weeks (It normally take me 2-3 weeks to complete a painting), when stored in the dark and with a walnut oil medium – without solvents, or anti-oxidants, freezing, immersing in water or anything else.

I then tested colours on the palette and found a curious thing. Some of the paints which stayed open the longest started setting up quick quickly under the brush. I have tested the colours now and found a range that stay open for (just) 3 weeks, but nearly all of them dry quicker than what the first drying tests showed.

So I’m theorising that some of the paint films were soft and able to be removed with the rubber tool even though the paint was no longer movable with a brush. The biggest culprit I found was with the W&N Carbon Black which tacked up in only 3 days yet lasted 34 days in my first test. That does tie in with the fact that carbon black is known to make a poorer film than other pigments.

The Arylides, Pyrrols have so far also dried quicker than the first testing phase showed (but at least 21 days). My W&N French Ultramarine Blue has just dried after 26 days and I got 24 days originally, so I’m wondering if the mineral nature of the pigment is the difference here compared to the organics.

Still some colours to dry, and variations to try. But all very interesting to me anyway.

[MrsSellers]

Richard, have you made any more progress? I’ve been watching this thread with great interest.

[Richard P]

Oh sorry, I didn’t realise anyone was still watching this thread.

Yes I have made more progress. I moved onto testing the paint on a palette with a brush to get a true idea of how long paint will last for.

I discovered that W&N Bright Red when mixed with different yellows made the mix dry within 3 days. I talked to W&N and discovered that the Pyrrols have a drier in there. It seems it dries in thin layers within 8 days but as long as 23 days in thicker layers. However when mixed in with other pigments it accelerates the drying time.

I have now identified a range of colours which stay open 3 weeks or longer. I’ve yet to use all of them in a painting but my previous painting ‘Radhika’ worked well when I used some of them as it didn’t dry on the palette until the end of the painting.

[ilya K]

Richard, you also test Rembrandt PR254. How does it compare? I have their PR255, and when it comes to drying, I hate it. 3 weeks for thin layers! Georgian PR254 is dry in less than a week.

Ilya K
C&C always welcome

[Richard P]

I only tested it on the rubber tipped scratch test. It took 36 days to dry in this test, compared to the W&N Bright red which was still wet after 70 days.

But.. in real world palette tests these numbers are a lot less. Bright red was totally dry by around 23 days. Based on this I suspect Rembrandt PR254 does dry quicker than W&N PR254.

However, as you said Georgian PR254 dries quicker, 14 days on my test.

The quickest was still Sennelier Rive Gauche (which includes solvent & driers) which was dry in 2 days..

[Delofasht]

Richard, the drying rate of pigments in various conditions has been quite interesting and useful. I have found that many brands use additives to adjust the handling qualities and drying rates.

From looking at your table, I notice that M Graham paints have a wider variance of drying rate depending on the pigment than that of the other brands. Walnut oil dries slower than Linseed and as such the effect on the paint is already one variable, but also the pigment choice seems to impact this even further. Ultimately though, I think we can see from the data that pigment has a strong effect on drying rates and that we should be aware of what pigments are in our paints for reasons beyond just hue.

Also, I have a lot of the M Graham colors, the ones labeled as drying slowly, do so. Pigment plays a big part in the drying rate with M Graham paints because they do not use fillers or additives, and only enough of any kind of stabilizer to keep a paint from separating in the tube in usual household ambient temperatures.

What pigments and brand of paint did you decide on?

- Delo Delofasht

[Richard P]

Thanks Delo. I’m still finalising my choices. Some brands are cheaper here in the UK than in the US (W&N, Rembrandt, other european brands).

In general though the brands without any dryers (apart from one titanium white blend this is clearly listed) are Michael Harding, and Jacksons Professional own brand range.

Other brands, well some have driers in some paints, and others in the same range don’t.

Do you have Pyrrol Red (PR254) in M Graham? I haven’t tried that yet, if you have it would you consider testing it in the dark on a covered palette with added walnut oil for me?

[Delofasht]

Do you have Pyrrol Red (PR254) in M Graham? I haven’t tried that yet, if you have it would you consider testing it in the dark on a covered palette with added walnut oil for me?

Unfortunately, that is one color I have not picked up from them yet because I currently have a tube and a half from another brand still. I will say that the Pyrrol red I have is extremely slow drying in the dark, even slower than my Quinacridones which are really slow driers as well.

- Delo Delofasht

[Richard P]

Oh, what is the brand that you have now that is so slow drying?

[Delofasht]

ArtTreehouse brand PR 254 is quite slow drying, but we know that Pyrrol Red is always slow drying, so little surprise. It took 2 weeks for a panel I primed with it to dry in normal lighting conditions, and that was thinly applied. I had to put a lamp on it and a heat fan, it was slightly cool in the house so likely slowed down drying in part due to that.

- Delo Delofasht

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