Mission Gold Watercolors?

[WthrLady]

It does make a difference. If she is sponsored by the company, then her opinion is highly biased, and her views on the product are skewed and highly questionable. I’m with Virgil and Greg on this one.

My Fine Art Site - http://fineartamerica.com/profiles/carylj-bohn.html
The Homestead http://DunrovinStation.blogspot.com

[CharM Moderator Watercolour Forum]

It’s not uncommon for Artists to be sponsored by a Manufacturer… Jan Hart and Jeanne Dobie speak on behalf of Daniel Smith, Nick Simmons is affiliated with Golden and DaVinci, Arnold Lowery is a spokesperson for American Journey (I think)…

I expect them to be enthusiastic about those products. And, it’s my prerogative to agree or disagree with them. Mary Henderson is just doing what she should be doing. That she decided to jump into WC and make a single post didn’t help her much, though…

That doesn’t mean that I’ll ever buy this product. It took just a little research to discover that their techie claims are questionable at best, their prices are expensive and their colour line is filled with mixtures and hues.

When we were first introduced to M. Graham a few years ago, little was known about that Company… I bought my first tubes because a Member here recommended them… Graham’s have gained respect because Artists were willing to try something new… they have kept that respect and earned new business because their product is a good one.

Unfortunately, Mijello may not enjoy similar success.

Char --

CharMing Art -- "Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art." Leonardo DaVinci

[virgil carter]

All good points, above. Mijello’s palettes are good ones; I have two (I’m making the assumption that it’s the same company).

But from the sounds of it, they really haven’t done their due diligence when it comes to paint research and formulations, since lightfastness is a MAJOR criterion for all serious painters.

For a new manufacturer to break into the art world, I would think it would take great initial quality at a highly competitive value for a limited range of, say, 30 or so commonly used paints, in 15ml and 37ml sizes.

And I’d not try to do what Holbein and some others do which is to come up with an unbelivable number of mixed pigment paints with unbelivable names and colors of questionable use and lightfastness.

To break into the serious painter market, I’d focus on those paints that form the basics of 95% of the palettes of serious, long-time painters. I’d make these paints the best on the market in terms of lightfastness and pigment load, and I’d price them as low as possible initially in order to gain market share. In other words, forcus narrowly, on carefully selected range of high artistic quality paints and not on quantity or variety of colors.

Daniel Smith is a good example of how, once market share and quality are established, a manufacturer can expand the range and variety of paints. But one must first establish one’s credibility and dependablility. It’s called “reputation” in the biz!

Further, I’m constantly amazed that more paint manufacturers don’t market in the 37ml size, which is the most economical value when $/ml is considered. These sized paints are more economical than the 14ml and 15ml tubes, and far more than smaller tubes.

Once my market identity and reputation in the paint business was established, I’d consider the related markets for branded brushes and for painting supports, ie, palletes, easels, etc. Even custom-branded paper and canvas! Can you feel it painters? And I’m not even a marketing person…only my daughers are!

If I were in Mijello’s marketing department, that’s where I’d be going if I really wanted to compete with the established big guys. Of course, my marketing strategy needs a sugar daddy/mommy for the first 5 years!

sling paint!
Virgil

Sling paint,
Virgil Carter
http://www.virgilcarterfineart.com/

[Rocket Jones]

Mijello, and to some extent all the rest, aren’t necessarily marketing towards serious artists. I’d bet that a greater proportion of their sales comes from beginners, students and casual hobbyists. In other words, people who may not even know what ‘fugitive’ means.

"We are all a little weird and life's a little weird, and when we find someone who's weirdness is compatible with ours,
we join up with them and fall in mutual weirdness and call it Love." -- Dr. Seuss

[M.L. Schaefer]

An advertisement for the new paint said it was developed with the help of watercolorists, and that the company said they used the input of artists to develop their line. ????? Yep, some artists would pick the Original Alizarin Crimson (PR83.1) over Permanent Alizarin Crimson because it looks so “darn purrty”!

Kiwi

When he, the Spirit of truth is come...he will be your Guide... Holy Bible (Old and New Testament)
Under the Concrete are Flowers Yet to be Born...from a Chilean Poem

[MarekB]

… That she decided to jump into WC and make a single post didn’t help her much, though…

Agreed. I would actually argue that it detracts from the (possible) merits of the product, as it is now linked with some dubious advertising scheme… at least in my mind!

Marek

https://www.instagram.com/marekbad64

[Mary Henderson]

Ingegerd, you will find that Mission Gold is as fade resistant as all the other brands. The normal is considered 100 years–you and I will be long gone by then. As for the pots they’re blended in, who cares if they’re stainless steel (WN) or natural crockery, the finished product speaks for itself.

I am now using only Mission Gold watercolors for all of my personal works and teaching. Very importantly, so are all of the other professional artists that I personally know. This is what we do, how we make a living. We take our results very seriously. I am sure you will be happily surprised at how wonderfully they perform for you, professional or student.

Marycolor

[indianagreg]

If you are pleased with Mission Gold, then may you paint with them long and well (with the lightfast ones, that is). However, two things we would suggest: (1) Caution your students against using those pigments that are plainly fugitive. And (2), encourage the manufacturer, whom you seem to represent perhaps indirectly in a marketing capacity, to reformulate their line (as others have responsibly done) to eliminate the vast majority of non-lightfast pigments from their paints. RMG (NR9)and Alizarin Crimson (PR83) seem nearly impossible to kill off. At least PR83 does provide assistance in lightfastness testing.

[Mary Henderson]

Artist to artist, I would sincerely recommend giving these paints a try.

My gallery shop is currently under construction; however, my online gallery has been up and running at http://www.artistscreativecenter.com/gallery.htm for some time now. Please let me know if you are still having trouble accessing my artwork.

I hope this helps!

Marycolor at the http://www.artistscreativecenter.com

[ingegerd]

Ingegerd, you will find that Mission Gold is as fade resistant as all the other brands. The normal is considered 100 years–you and I will be long gone by then. As for the pots they’re blended in, who cares if they’re stainless steel (WN) or natural crockery, the finished product speaks for itself.

I am now using only Mission Gold watercolors for all of my personal works and teaching. Very importantly, so are all of the other professional artists that I personally know. This is what we do, how we make a living. We take our results very seriously. I am sure you will be happily surprised at how wonderfully they perform for you, professional or student.

Marycolor

I think you have underestimated the level of knowledge on this page. It isn’t what brand a paint is that makes it fugitive or not, it is what pigments it contain. Lets take a look at Bright Violet http://www.dickblick.com/items/01758-6530/#colorpigments it contains PV3. I have some Violet from St.Petersbur(now White Nights) that is made from PV3, I have ever used it for anything else than painting wrapping paper but I have tested it for permance.

After a summer in a sunny window the result was this

You can compare it to Permanent Carmine from Schmincke made from PV19

Unfortunally there are far to many professional artists that have poor knowledge of fugitive pigments, you just need to read a few watercolour handbooks to find this out.

[MarekB]

… If she is sponsored by the company, then her opinion is highly biased, and her views on the product are skewed and highly questionable. …

Mary,
in view of the statement above, for the rest of us Newbies can you clarify your affiliation (if any) with the Brand you are proposing, and speaking so highly for?

Thanks In Advance

Marek

https://www.instagram.com/marekbad64

[Mayberry]

Just for curiosity’s sake, I went through the Mission Gold paints on Dick Blick’s website to look at the pigment information for each color and create a bit of a summary. Here’s what I found.

Total number of colors = 90

These colors are composed of fugitive pigments and/or dyes, either whole or in part:

Bright Rose
Bright Violet
Lavender
Lilac
Opera
Permanent Alizarin Crimson
Permanent Violet
Red Violet
Rose Madder
Ultramarine Violet
Violet Gray
Total = 11

These colors are composed of pigments listed as “Fair to Good,” either whole or in part:

Aureolin
Davy’s Gray
Emerald Green
Leaf Green
Lemon Yellow
Melon Green
Permanent Green 1
Permanent Green 2
Rubine
Yellow Green
Total = 10

These colors are composed of pigments that are listed as “may fade in tints,” either whole or in part:

Hookers Green
Indian Yellow
Jaune Brilliant 1
Jaune Brilliant 2
Orange
Shell Pink
Vermilion
Yellow Ochre 1 Transparent
Yellow Orange
Total = 9

These colors had no pigment and/or lightfastness info:

Bluish Pearl
Greenish Yellow
Permanent Yellow Deep
Permanent Yellow Light
Yellowish Pearl
Total = 5

The rest of the colors had ratings of either excellent/permanent, very good, or good. Many of them had what I would consider misleading names. For example, cerulean is made from phthalo blue, ivory black is made from lamp black, neutral tint is made from lamp black, burnt umber is made of three different pigments, and has been mentioned before, Chinese White is made from titanium white.

Here’s all the pigment data for each color:

Aureolin PBr25 – excellent
PY3 – fair to good
Bamboo Green PG36 – excellent
Blue Grey – PB15 – excellent
PW6 – excellent
PB29 – excellent
Blue Violet – PV23 – good
PB15 – excellent
Bluish Pearl – no pigment info
Bright Rose – BV7 – fugitive dye
PR122 – very good
BV10 – fugitive dye
Brilliant Pink – PR209 – excellent
PW6 – excellent
Bright Violet – BV7 – fugitive dye
PV3 – fugitive dye
PR122 – very good
Burnt Sienna – PR101 – excellent
Burnt Umber – PBr25 – excellent
PY17 – good (with qualifications)
PBr9 – generally permanent (with qualifications)
Cerulean Blue – PB15 – excellent (phthalo blue)
Cherry Red – PR209 – excellent
Chinese White Transparent – PW6 – excellent (titanium)
Cobalt Blue 1 – PB15:3 – excellent
PB29 – excellent
Cobalt Blue 2 – PB28 – excellent
Cobalt Green – PG7 – excellent
PW6 – excellent
Cobalt Turquoise – PB28 – excellent
Compose Blue – PB15:3 – excellent
PG7 – excellent
PW6 – excellent
Crimson Lake – PR202 – “relatively stable”
Davy’s Gray – PY3 – fair to good
PBk7 – excellent
PW6 – excellent
Emerald Green – PY3 – fair to good
PG7 – excellent
PW6 – excellent
Gamboge – PY17 – good (with qualifications)
PBr9 – generally permanent (with qualifications)
Gold Brown – PBr25 – excellent
PY65 – excellent
Grey of Grey – PBk7 – excellent
PW6 – excellent
Green Grey – PBk7 – excellent
PG7 – excellent
PW6 – excellent
Greenish Yellow – PY117 – no lightfastness info
Hookers Green – PY17 – good (with qualifications)
PG7 – excellent
PO13 – good at full strength, may fade in tints
Horizon Blue – PB15 – excellent
PG7 – excellent
PW6 – excellent
Indian Yellow – PY17 – good (with qualifications)
PBr9 – generally permanent (with qualifications)
PO13 – good at full strength, may fade in tints
Indigo – PB60 – excellent
PBk7 – excellent
Ivory Black – PBk7 – excellent (lamp black)
Jaune Brilliant 1 PY65 – excellent
PW6 – excellent
PO13 – good at full strength, may fade in tints
Jaune Brilliant 2 PBr6 – excellent
PW6 – excellent
PO13 – good at full strength, may fade in tints
Lavender – PB28 – excellent
BV10 – fugitive dye
PW6 – excellent
Leaf Green – PY3 – fair to good
PY17 – good (with qualifications)
PG7 – excellent
Lemon Yellow – PY3 – fair to good
Light Red – PBr25 – excellent
PR112 – excellent (with qualifications)
Lilac – BV7 – fugitive dye
PR122 – very good (with qualifications)
PW6 – excellent
Manganese Blue – PB15 – excellent
Marine Blue – PB15 – excellent
PG7 – excellent
Melon Green – PY3 – fair to good
PG7 – excellent
PW6 – excellent
Mijello Blue – PB60 – excellent
Naples Yellow – PY65 – excellent
PY17 – good (with qualifications)
PW6 – excellent
Neutral Tint – PBk7 – excellent (lamp black)
Olive Green – PR112 – excellent (with qualifications)
PY17 – good (with qualifications)
PG36 – excellent
Opera – PR122 – very good (with qualifications)
BV10 – fugitive dye
Orange – PO13 – good at full strength, may fade in tints
Peacock Blue – PB15:3 – excellent
PG7 – excellent
Permanent Alizarin Crimson – PR83:1 – fugitive (actual alizarin crimson)
PR122 – very good (with qualifications)
Permanent Green 1 – PY3 – fair to good
PG7 – excellent
Permanent Green 2 – PY65 – excellent
PY3 – fair to good
PG7 – excellent
Permanent Magenta – PR122 – very good (with qualifications)
Permanent Red – PR122 – very good (with qualifications)
Permanent Red Deep – PR254 – excellent
Permanent Rose – PR122 – very good (with qualifications)
PR209 – excellent
Permanent Violet – PV3 – fugitive dye
Permanent Yellow Deep – no pigment info
Permanent Yellow Light – no pigment info
Perylene Maroon – PR179 – excellent
Prussian Blue – PB27 – fades in light, recovers in dark, fades when mixed with

extenders or white
Prussian Green – PB27 – fades in light, recovers in dark, fades when mixed with

extenders or white
PG7 – excellent
Raw Sienna – PBr25 – excellent
PY65 – excellent
PY42 – excellent
Raw Umber – PY65 – excellent
PBr9 – “generally permanent” (with qualifications)
Red Brown – PBr25 – excellent
Red Violet – PV1 – fugitive dye
Rose Madder – PR83:1 – fugitive (alizarin crimson)
Rubine – PR57:1 – fair to good
Sap Green – PBr25 – excellent
PY17 – good (with qualifications)
PG36 – excellent
Scarlet Lake – PR112 – excellent (with qualifications)
Sepia – PBk7 – excellent
PBr9 – “generally permanent” (with qualifications)
Shadow Green – PBk7 – excellent
PG7 – excellent
Shadow Violet – PG7 – excellent
PR122 – very good (with qualifications)
Shell Pink – PW6 – excellent
PO13 – good at full strength, may fade in tints
Titanium White Opaque – PW6 – excellent
Turquoise Blue – PB15 – excellent
PG7 – excellent
PW6 – excellent
Ultramarine Deep – PB15:3 – excellent
PB29 – excellent
Ultramarine Light – PB29 – excellent
Ultramarine Violet – PV3 – fugitive dye
PV15 – excellent
Vandyke Brown – PBr9 – “generally permanent” (with qualifications)
Vandyke Green – PBr25 – excellent
PBr7 – (I think they really mean PG7, phthalo green)
Verditer Blue – PB28 – excellent
PW6 – excellent
Vermilion – PR112 – very good (with qualifications)
PO13 – good at full strength, may fade in tints
Violet Gray – PV3 – fugitive dye
PR202 – “relatively stable”
PW6 – permanent
Viridian – PG7 – excellent
Yellow Grey – PBk7 – excellent
PY17 – good (with qualifications)
PW6 – excellent
Yellow Green – PY3 – fair to good
PG7 – excellent
Yellowish Pearl – no pigment info
Yellow Ochre 1 Transparent – PY42 – excellent
PO13 – good at full strength, may fade in tints
Yellow Ochre 2 Opaque – PY42 – excellent
Yellow Orange – PY65 – excellent
PO13 – good at full strength, may fade in tints

-Cathy

http://catherinedavila-paintings.blogspot.com

[virgil carter]

Cathy, thanks for your extensive homework. Based on what you’ve listed, this doesn’t look like a mature and truly artist-grade line of paints, IMO.

Of course I could be missing a lot!

sling paint!
Virgil

Sling paint,
Virgil Carter
http://www.virgilcarterfineart.com/

[Mayberry]

I’m sure many of the colors are fine, especially the blues. There are a huge number of blues to choose from that are mostly just different combinations of phthalo blue, phthalo green, and titanium white (all lightfast and phthalo-brite!). However, it takes careful sifting through the pigment data to find the “safe” colors and to make sure you’re choosing the color you want (since the names are so misleading).

Sorry that my list doesn’t have the indentation it should to make it easier to read. So many of the colors are made up of multiple pigments. I put 2nd and 3rd pigments of a color on subsequent lines after the color name.

I was curious about the germanium-producing Korean jars, so I tried some Googling about germanium. Aside from its use as a semiconductor, germanium pops up in a lot of “mysterious beauty products from the Orient” type stuff, mostly from Korea. It apparently has some antibacterial properties, which may be why they think it’s a good idea to have some in watercolors. It probably also uses “special ion energy” to help make the water molecules beautiful.

-Cathy

http://catherinedavila-paintings.blogspot.com

[helcahisie]

I am mostly a beginner and I happen to live in Korea, so I was interested in those paints and decided to try out a few.

The paints are quite strong and a little indeed does go a long way, but the pigment composition is dubious.

Actually, this issue of lightfastness and pigment composition isn’t restricted to this company but actually Because Korean housing is usually quite small and the buyers are restricted to galleries that aren’t exposed to full sunlight, painters here don’t usually expect their work to be framed and hung in rooms with windows. Also, the aerosol content in Korea is much higher than the European or US conditions, so UV exposure isn’t much of a concern here. (fugitive paints like Opera and Alizarin Crimson are recommended everywhere, I was surprised!)

This makes the three Korean companies that produce watercolour paints(Shinhan, Alpha and Mijello) pretty much oblivious to lightfastness. If you check Shinhan paints on Dick Blick you will find that the brand also contains a lot of fugitive dyes and pigments. Alpha does a little better, but still isn’t very good compared to other companies.

My recommendation to painters who buy Korean watercolour paints is to check the pigments before buying, and stick to single-pigment, lightfast paints. Then you can find a couple of very good paints. Otherwise though, stay away.
(Do check out their Cobalt Turquoise though, it’s a beautiful colour.)

Not everyone can afford freedom, and not everyone wants to.

[Author]

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