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November 25, 2012 at 8:08 am #990332
When I started water color painting the only locally available paints were W&N Cotman series. I got the whole line of that product. Then I read on WetCanvas.com how superior the artist quality paints are, so I started to look out for them locally, but could only find them in Johannesburg and Pretoria art supplies shops (200 miles from home). I then discovered eBay.com for the first time, and found a lot of bargains, usually less then 40% of the retail price in South Africa. At that moment in time money was not much of a problem, so I bought a lot of paint including W&N artist grade, DS, and M.Graham paints.
I didn’t have enough experience of how little paint you actually need for a painting, so I bought way to much! My worries now is: how long can I expect them to be liquid in the tubes (most of them never opened), and ready to use.
I would appreciate all comments from people who know and have some experience of this situation!
Tommy
PS. I also bough a lot of halt pans and full pans, but I don’t think they can create a problem for me.It's better to start painting late in life than never...
November 25, 2012 at 8:28 am #1175091I have a lot of oil paint I got on sale; some tubes are 40+ years old! The paint is fine as long as the caps are on tight.
You were smart to buy watercolor pans; all watercolor tubes ultimately will dry out, some pigments faster than others, but drying out takes many years. Winsor & Newton tubes dry the fastest, M. Graham seem to last very very well. Daniel Smith are inconsistent from the start, so hard to predict their longevity. There have been problems with almost all manufacturers in recent years: caps that split open. The manufacturers will send you free caps if that happens to you.November 25, 2012 at 9:06 am #1175089Tommy,
Put your unopened extra tubes of paint in plastic zip-lock bags and they will probably be good when your hair has turned gray with age.Seriously, I put my watercolor gear away for over 15 years, but when I decided to start painting again, most of the tubes were just the way I had left them, even the ones that were partially used. The couple that had dried up were usable too after I cut them open and rewet the paint just as I do with the ones that dry in my palette between uses.
Enjoy!
Sylvia
November 25, 2012 at 11:25 am #1175109Sylvia’s “experiment” is longer than mine but I’ve used without any issues W&N tubes that were easily 10 years old, with other manufacturers I occasionally see some separation of the gum arabic (honey colored clear fluid upon opening the cap) but as Sylvia says cut it open and have at it.
Bill"The object isn't to make art, it's to be in that wonderful state which makes art inevitable." (Robert Henri)
November 25, 2012 at 12:49 pm #1175103Machen Sie sich darüber keine Sorgen Tommy!
Tubenfarben können Jahre flüssig bzw. cremig bleiben,
wenn sie gut verschlossen sind. Ich habe Tuben von
Cotman, W&N, Blockx und Schmincke, die 20 Jahre
unbenutzt herum liegen und immer noch eine weiche
Konsistenz aufweisen.
Haben Sie eingetrocknete Tuben, so schneiden Sie
diese auf und benutzen sie wie Näpfchenfarben.
Ein alter Aquarellist hat einmal den Tipp gegeben,
eingetrocknete Farben mit heißem Wasser und etwas
Gummi arabicum weich zu stoßen. Funktioniert aber
leider nicht bei allen Farbtönen.Tommy Do not worry about it!
Tube colors can add years to remain liquid and creamy,
when they are closed. I have tubes of Cotman, W & N,
Blockx and Schmincke 20 Years lying around unused
and still have a soft Consistency.
Have you dried tubes, simply cut on these and use them
as cups colors.
An old watercolorist once given the advice to dried colors
with hot water and some Gum arabic encountering soft.
But it works unfortunately, not all colors.Ernst
Meine Seiten - My website
Malen ist nicht alles im Leben - aber ohne Malen ist alles nichts!
Painting is not everything in life - but without painting everything is nothing!November 25, 2012 at 1:07 pm #1175101I have a few Grumbacher colors I bought about 25 years ago. I had barely used them and then put them away in a box in the closet until a couple years ago. They’re fine. One of the tubes sprung a leak in the back when I tried to open it, so I squeezed the whole tube out the leak and into a palette well.
November 25, 2012 at 1:19 pm #1175094Years and Years on end !!:)
Like Sylvia and Ernst ,I have used Tubes that are maybe 25+ years old and added continuously to palette paint with them ,with no problems .
One of the few things in life that really last .
I also keep them in Plastic bags or boxes or Cans .
Nice thing about Watercolor the paper and brushes last too without much fuss . It ‘s a Good thing !!
June:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:Follow your Bliss and the Universe will open doors for you , where there were only walls. Joseph Campbell
November 25, 2012 at 7:25 pm #1175105Bad news!
I have W&N tubes circa 1910 which are completely dried out.
Cheers
Tred"When I see a jumble; I paint just that" - John Yardley
November 25, 2012 at 7:48 pm #1175107Bad news!
I have W&N tubes circa 1910 which are completely dried out.
Cheers
TredIf my tubes are dried out in 100 years I’ll write to W&N and ask for a refund
Jokes aside, this is an interesting thread. Sort of like TommyJav I made the beginner mistake of buying as many colours as I could (not to that extreme though lol). I am still in the process of working through to decide which ones I use often enough to keep and which ones I will never/rarely use or are too close to other colours. The majority of my tubes are W&N, but I also have a handful of Holbein, and a bunch of Daler Rowney (I got those because the university bookshop was selling them on clearance for about $1 a tube). I’ve also got a few DS that I got as novelty colours for the duochrome and irridescent effects. I’ve also got a couple of colours (Alizarin Crimson for example) that I bought because they were used by artists in painting instruction books and that I didn’t know were fugitive. Once I’ve sorted out the ones I don’t want, they’ll go on eBay.
I found a set of student grade (Reeves) gouache in my cupboard the other day, would have been at least 10 years old. Opened them up, and good lord, the smell was foul The paint was so disgusting and mudlike I couldn’t save it even if I wanted to, so I chucked it. On a semi-related note, what is the life expectancy of artist grade gouache? I have also found several new tubes of W&N Designers gouache that I think may have been a gift from my grandmother – I’m sure I didn’t buy them. Not sure how old they are but the paint seems more or less fresh, though some of them seem to have separated a little.
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.
Rebecca ~ http://artdragon86.wordpress.com/November 25, 2012 at 8:04 pm #1175104Water-based paints, watercolor and gouache, actually have an unlimited life span. When they are fresh enough, they retain their mositure in the tubes and can readily be squeezed on the palette and immediately used.
Paints left unused on a palette sooner or later dry and lose their inherent moisture. But they can easily, and rather quickly be reconstituted by spray or dropping a few drops of water and waiting for a few minutes. Once rewet, they will perform as well as ever, given enough time to remoisten.
A couple of us wrote most of the major paint manufacturers a couple of years back, asking if there was any compositional or pigment load difference in their “wet” tubes and their “dry” pan paints. All but W&N said their tubes and pans are identical. That tells us that dried tubes are the same as pans!
W&N wrote that they added an ingredient to their pans to help them moisturize a bit more quickly.
Thus, when a tube dries out, it’s hardly the end of its lifetime. It has simply become a “pan paint” in a “tube”. Cut the tube open, put the contents on your palette, remoisten and paint happily every after.
Isn’t it good to know that there’s something in life that doesn’t become obsolete?
Sling paint!
VirgilSling paint,
Virgil Carter
http://www.virgilcarterfineart.com/November 25, 2012 at 11:20 pm #1175099I had like 40 M Graham put away for around 8 years and they are fine. In some of them the honey/glycerine/liquid went to the top, so if you start squeezing and liquid starts to come out, grab a toothpick and stir the paint inside the tube, close the tube and “massage” the tube a little and then the paint will come out perfect. Of the 40 tubes, just 3 had leaked from the back but they self seal when the paint hardened in place.
Carlos
C & C welcomed & appreciated!
WC Theory: handprint.comNovember 26, 2012 at 2:05 am #1175095I have few talens van gogh tubes which work well they are buyed about 2004 i think. but clarly before 2008…
November 26, 2012 at 2:59 am #1175106It also depends on the pigment, Permanent Mauve is renowned for going hard in the tube and there was a time when W&N didn’t make it in a tube because of this problem. This afternoon I needed more sepia. Went to the “Earth Colours” box and found a 5mil tube of W&N and a 15mil tube of Holbein. The 5mil tube had hardened so much that I had to cut the tube to remove the, almost solid, paint but the Holbein was OK – both bought about 15 years ago. The fact that I live in a semi tropical climate may also have some bearing on the matter.
Cheers
Tred"When I see a jumble; I paint just that" - John Yardley
November 26, 2012 at 3:44 am #1175093I have W&N and Liquitex (which has stopped producing watercolours decades ago) watercolour tubes that I bought more than twenty years ago and they are perfectly fine for use.
Some of the colours have long since discontinued e.g. Winsor Blue (not the red or green shade as exist today) which I use only for seascapes. I also have some Cotman tubes which last time I looked they were fine for use as well.
Since I make some of my paints from pigments it does not take me much effort to cut open a tube of hardened paint, break it down to powder form and remix to reproduce paint again.
Kind regards.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."
Rui
"I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance."
Socrates.November 26, 2012 at 12:56 pm #1175092Well, to those who think I am fibbing/making things up, I’d be happy to post a photo of my collection of useless, dried-up watercolor tubes. A very expensive museum of cobalts, ceruleans, etc. After attempting to reconstitute dried watercolor paint, I became interested in making my own paint from raw minerals–it’s just as easy!
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