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- This topic has 11 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 20 years, 6 months ago by rhapsodyfirebeads.
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May 10, 2004 at 10:05 pm #984179
I checked with my insurance agent, and found out, as others have suggested, kilns are a no no. I am now trying to come up with a solution to the ” Just where do I put the kiln?” question. One solution would be to put it on a metal cart, and simply leave it out on the patio while I’m operating it. Since I live in Arizona, that wouldn’t be a bad solution during spring, fall & winter. In the summer however, the temperature frequently reachs 110, sometimes more. I’m wondering if the high ambient temperature would affect the way the kiln and/or the controller operate. Has anyone had any experience along these lines? Also, are there any other suggestions as to what to do placing the kiln without risking loss of insurance coverage? Thanks, Bill
May 10, 2004 at 10:32 pm #1030798Outside temperature for all practical purposes has nothing to do with internal kiln temperature, the thermocouple reads chamber temperature and does not care how hot or cold it is outside…
Your mobile solution should be good any time of year (except in the rain).
Dale
Who will teach the young?
Only the old that have survived!
And only if the young will listen.May 10, 2004 at 10:35 pm #1030803Have you considered switching insurance companies? And are you sure they really understand what it is? Mine is fine with my kiln and studio setup….I am curious to know how many people have had issues with insurance–it would be nice to know if there is a list of “glass worker friendly” insurance companies.
Sorry to ramble off your topic directly…but curious.
May 11, 2004 at 1:37 am #1030806Dale, Actually the rain shouldn’t be a problem, the patio’s got about an eight foot overhang. That and we only get about 7 inchs of rain a year when we’re lucky, and lately we’ve been in a drought. Though I suppose keeping it under the overhang negates the reason it’s outside in the first place. Thanks, Bill
May 11, 2004 at 1:49 am #1030807Julie, I would consider switching insurance companies if I knew for sure of one I could go to. My agent (who is an independent) looked around and couldn’t come up with another one. I’m not sure though, just how hard she tried. I agree, it would be nice to have a list of ‘glass worker friendly’ companies. What company are you using? If they are a ‘national’ company, or at least do business in Arizona as well as Washington, it might be worth my trying to contact them. Thanks, Bill
May 11, 2004 at 7:25 am #1030805Hi Bill,
Has your agent seen your kiln? Mine had a flying fit when I told him about mine. Then he came to look at it and I think felt a bit sheepish when he saw how small it really was. As long as I have added cement board on the walls near the kiln, a big fire extinguisher, and non combustable work surfaces, he’s much more relaxed now. He took pics of the torch and kiln for his files but I’m 100% covered. I do have commercial insurance, not just home owners since I operate in a seperate building from my home. I don’t know about you, but I’m operating as a business. My studio just sold so we’ll be adding on a studio at home. If we added on to our house, we’d have to have commercial insurance for the structure, then get renter’s insurance for our personal belongings. The way things are working out for us, we’ll be adding on to our garage (if the city lets us… ) so the garage will be insured at commercial rates and our home owners insurance will stay the same.
Good luck with your delima. But I’m glad that you’re checking into insurance for your glass stuff.
Mary
May 11, 2004 at 7:56 am #1030799i have 3 kilns, 2 hot plates, and a 12 inch natural gas powered glory hole in a small room in my basement. i had the building inspector, local fire marshal, and my insurance inspector look at it and sign off with no issues. they said that as long as it is not a place of business and used for a hobby, then i was OK. however, if it was a place of business then all bets are off. now i know people sell their glass art at art shows and on ebay, but that does not make your studio a place of business. it is a place of business if you have direct sales out of your studio, if it is open to the public, or if you give lessons or instrurction to others there.
i guess my point is that, how are you presenting this kiln to you insurance agent. if you said that i have a hobby, is this OK, then the answer will probably be, yes it is OK. but if you made the mistake to think that just because you make a few bucks off of the sale of your art that it is a place of business, then you screwed up.
try getting a new insurance policy with a new company. do not sell out of your studio. do not have your studio open to the public. and do not give private instruction for money. you can do a demo for some boy scouts or a friend or two and still be legal.
it is also very important to have your kiln in a safe environment. i have seen some real stupid installations by people here at WC. the kiln should be on the floor not on a table. it should be sitting on concrete, not wood, vinyl, or carpet. all all manufacturer safety suggestions should be implimented or exceeded.
May 11, 2004 at 8:46 am #1030800we dumped state farm a couple years ago (don’t get me started on THAT! lol) and went to Farmer’s Insurance. I was worried about the torch etc but the agent was absolutely unconcerned. I told her exactly what I was doing and she did not have a problem with any of it.
I agree that perhaps your agent thinks you’re firing up a pottery kiln. Maybe if she knew how small it is? An invite for coffee and tour might be in order. good luck.
Darleen
May 11, 2004 at 11:17 am #1030808it is also very important to have your kiln in a safe environment. i have seen some real stupid installations by people here at WC. the kiln should be on the floor not on a table. it should be sitting on concrete, not wood, vinyl, or carpet. all all manufacturer safety suggestions should be implimented or exceeded.
Trying not to takeover the thread. I have not read about the kiln sitting on the floor and not the table..can you explain why?
Thanks (I dont have mine setup yet. just trying to get all the safety information taken care of before I set it all up)
BTW..mine is an AIM 84BD
May 11, 2004 at 11:49 am #1030804it is also very important to have your kiln in a safe environment. i have seen some real stupid installations by people here at WC. the kiln should be on the floor not on a table. it should be sitting on concrete, not wood, vinyl, or carpet. all all manufacturer safety suggestions should be implimented or exceeded.
Mark, you are referring to just the large kilns being on the floor right? I remember a thread (this one actually post #17) in which you said kilns should be on the floor…then amended your statement to reflect that you are used to using larger kilns that require being on the floor. That smaller kilns need to be on the floor OR a fireproof surface. (See…I DO pay attention to what you post here.)
~~Mary
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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
--Winston ChurchillMay 11, 2004 at 12:17 pm #1030802Going back to the original topic (but avidly reading the insurance stuff for future reference), I currently have my studio on my balcony including my kiln. I’ve been running it outside with no problems for over a year now. The only thing I do is cover the entire bench with a tarp when it rains. If the kiln is hot when a storm comes up, I have a “tent” setup with about 12″ clearance on all sides and the possible flow directed away from the kiln. Works fine but oh boy I can’t wait for an inside space!
Karen (K) Sherwood
May 11, 2004 at 12:35 pm #1030801re: kilns sitting on the floor
all that is “required” is that the kiln be a specific distance from flammable surfaces. It says so right in the kiln manuel or should.
I have a 17″ Paragon glass fusing kiln (fire brick). It is BIG and heavy enough to require two people to lift it. I have a stand that is about 18″ tall that it sits on. I used to be paranoid about it and had a form filled with bricks that sat on fireboard (cement stuff that they used to use around wood burning stoves).
Now I know better. It sits on the stand right on the floor (parquet flooring at that!) with about an 18″ clearance from the walls. I have a small plastic rolling drawer stand next to my desk that is next to the kiln. Just to be sure, the first time I fired the kiln after getting the drawer thing I double checked to make sure the plastic wasn’t getting warm. It was still room temp.
So when you’re talking a small bead annealing kiln, just remember to set it on a nonflammable surface and keep it at least 18″ from any other flammable surfaces. Most annealers I’ve seen have some clearance on the bottom. If your’s doesn’t you can improvise with fire brick or kiln posts.
This really isn’t rocket science. And I still maintain that if you SHOW your agent your setup all will be well.
I’d bet dollars to holes in a dougnut that when you say “kiln” to someone outside the bead community they immediately envision a HUGE gas fired pottery kiln. Like everything else related to glass you have to be willing to educate the public and that includes fire safety offcials and insurance agents.
ok. rant off. Time to go fire up the torch.
Darleen
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