Home › Forums › Explore Media › Casein, Gouache, and Egg Tempera › Help with cracking
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December 4, 2010 at 7:51 pm #988871
Hi there, I was wondering if anyone could help me with a gouache query – I’m mainly painting using extremely bold, solid areas of colours starting with a base layer with some clear gesso mixed in so it doesn’t pull through and some water. When it comes to subsequent layers I’m mixing some water in but, despite only using colours that are labelled as opaque I’m still having to do 3 or 4 layers of the subsequent colour to get it vivid enough which is bringing problems of cracking.
I understand I can add some gum arabic to the paint to avoid cracking but it affects the lightfastness of the paint (I’m using winsor newton paints only rated as A or AA) and I would eventually like to make my originals available for sale.
My question is – does gum arabic significantly affect lightfastness, or due to the nature of my paintings and that I’m only really using bold areas of colour, should I be contemplating switching to acrylics to avoid having to repaint layers multiple times?
December 5, 2010 at 11:10 am #1144478Lightfastness is a property of the pigments themselves and has nothing to do with the medium, in this case gum arabic. The appearance of the pigment can be affected by the medium, like glossiness, matte, etc, and the medium disperses the pigments, but that’s not an issue of lightfastness or fading.
As far as cracking is concerned, it sounds like your gouache is being applied too thickly (“3 or 4 layers.”) The clear gesso you’re using may also be causing adhesion problems.
David Blaine Clemons
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My Website
My BlogDecember 7, 2010 at 8:59 am #1144483Hi Mark,
I paint in layers quite often, and even though I do get some texture in my strokes, the paint isn’t so thick that it cracks. I say that because it’s difficult to know just how thick your 3 or 4 layers are. One thing you have to make sure of is that a lighter color applied over dark has to be put on top of dry paint, and must be applied pretty opaquely – with one (maybe two) strokes. Otherwise the paint below will migrate into the new paint and affect the vividness (is that a word?) of the top strokes. And even then, colors and values can change when they dry. Very often, I have to let work “cure” for a couple of days to see what the colors and values are going to do.While gouache is extremely versatile, it’s not ideal for everything. I’ve never mixed anything with gouache. If you’re doing that to avoid lifting or mixing of colors, it’s possible that you’re trying to accomplish something that gouache just isn’t suitable for.
[FONT=Arial Narrow]RALPH
[FONT=Arial Narrow]My Art Showcase blog: www.ralphparkerart.wordpress.com
[FONT=Arial Narrow]My Everything Else blog: www.ralphparker.wordpress.comDecember 7, 2010 at 2:15 pm #1144479Mark, you have good answers here from the guys. If you want to see some gouache paintings done step-by-step we have a series of Gouache Corner threads you might want to look at. You can find the Gouache Corner alive and well over in the Watercolor Studio, but here’s a link to the Archives. In June-July we asked everyone to show us their WIP (work in progress), so we could see all the various techniques people used. Maybe some of that will be instructive. (I have some step-by-steps on my gouache blog, too.)
I may have misunderstood you, but if you’re mixing gesso with gouache and water to start with, I think you may be taking an unnecessary step. I’d suggest painting on different kinds of paper/boards to see what the gouache will do.
Deborah
"All glory to Him, who alone is God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Landscape Painting in Pastels (free online book)
Gouache BlogDecember 11, 2010 at 8:58 am #1144486Hi there. I’ve just joined the forum so I hope you don’t mind me diving into the coversation? Nice to meet you all
I paint in gouache as well as watercolour and pastel. I’ve found through trial and error that applying thin washes of colour, in a similar way to building up watercolour washes, helps prevent the problem with too thick layers and cracking.
Of course, as Ralph already points out, layers must be thoroughly dry before adding more paint. As for lightfastness, I spray finished works with Maribu fixative (for watercolour, gouache and oil pastel) and then when that’s dry with Golden archival varnish.
December 16, 2010 at 1:23 pm #1144484As for lightfastness, I spray finished works with Maribu fixative (for watercolour, gouache and oil pastel) and then when that’s dry with Golden archival varnish.
Hi Theresa. This forum has turned suddenly very quiet. Thanks for the reference to Maribu fixative. Not sure if I can find it here. I’ve used other spray fixatives to try to fix a layer before working over it. But the fixative seems to gum up the brushes slightly. Do you run into that?
[FONT=Arial Narrow]RALPH
[FONT=Arial Narrow]My Art Showcase blog: www.ralphparkerart.wordpress.com
[FONT=Arial Narrow]My Everything Else blog: www.ralphparker.wordpress.comDecember 16, 2010 at 2:00 pm #1144480Hi Teresa. Nice to have another gouachista on board. We’ll enjoy learning from you’re experiences.
I’ve used SpectraFix on my gouache as a final fixative. It’s virtually invisible, changes the colors little, and toughens up the painting a bit so it isn’t as vulnerable. I’ve never used it between layers, but I may give it a go. Ralph, have you used this fixative?
I think the forums are all a bit quiet this time of year, and this one is often a bit like a ghost town! Lots of folks click on the threads but few seem to comment here. I don’t know why. We have more talk over in the Gouache Corner in the Watercolor Studio than anywhere else, and even that’s quiet right now. But come see us there, if you haven’t already visited, Theresa.
Deborah
"All glory to Him, who alone is God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Landscape Painting in Pastels (free online book)
Gouache BlogDecember 16, 2010 at 2:47 pm #1144485No, I haven’t, Deborah, but I might try it. I have found that a very light touch of spray between layers is important. Too much, and the gouache just lays on the surface.
[FONT=Arial Narrow]RALPH
[FONT=Arial Narrow]My Art Showcase blog: www.ralphparkerart.wordpress.com
[FONT=Arial Narrow]My Everything Else blog: www.ralphparker.wordpress.comDecember 16, 2010 at 4:42 pm #1144487Ralph and Deborah … no worries. I realised it’s the time of year! I’m pretty frustrated myself at not being able to paint much … shop, shop, cook, cook. Oh well, it will be nice when it comes.
Ralph, I don’t find the fixative a problem with gumming the brushes. I usually wait a few hours after spraying before applying my first coat of varnish with a 1″ wide, soft brush. Then a day between subsequent layers. Normally 4 coats gives me the effect I like. I’ve never used fixative between layers of paint during the painting process though. I’ll experiment with that. Cheers.
Deborah, I will wander over to the watercolour studio too – thanks for the pointer – but like everyone else, it will be a sporadic presence for the next week!
Have a lovely Christmas both of you
Theresa
December 22, 2010 at 4:48 pm #1144482If I wanted to paint thickly, I would most definitely use acrylic. Then I would never have to worry about cracking. It’s available in matte, which looks more gouache-like.
C&C is welcome.
RichardJune 12, 2016 at 12:44 am #1144489Hello All: New to the site, and pretty new to painting with acrylics. I just posted a question about cracking in a painting I did 2 yrs ago in which — for some silly reason — I thought it would be OK to use gouache when I ran out of interactive acrylic. Reading through this thread, I’m pretty sure that’s where I went horribly wrong. In the areas where I used the black gouache, there’s some pretty serious cracking. Now what? How can I fix it? Go back and paint over these areas with interactive acrylic? (I’d post a photo, but I’m not allowed until my third posting!)
Thanks for any and all replies,
MRussoJune 12, 2016 at 3:47 pm #1144481MRusso, this thread is six years old, which means only a few who took part will likely see it, plus this forum is very quiet in general. If I were you I’d post your question in the acrylics forum, which you can find here: Acrylics When you can, post a photo for them to see. Since gouache is water reactive, you may be able to get it wet and scrub if off–that is, IF you used designers gouache and not acryla-gouache. Hope that helps.
Deborah
"All glory to Him, who alone is God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Landscape Painting in Pastels (free online book)
Gouache BlogJuly 7, 2016 at 2:04 pm #1144488If I wanted to paint thickly, I would most definitely use acrylic. Then I would never have to worry about cracking. It’s available in matte, which looks more gouache-like.
I use gouache in an impasto fashion all the time with no cracking issues and the key is making sure, as everyone has already stated, that the under surface is complete dry if not you will get cracks as two different surfaces try to work their drying exercise out simultaneously.
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