Home Forums Explore Media Casein, Gouache, and Egg Tempera Can you paint gouache over a matte acrylic?

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  • #1454888
    Farah
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        I was wondering if this is archival at all, I’m new to fine art so please excuse my ignorance (I was a digital artist).  I have acryla gouache (Holbein) which is basically a matte acrylic, and some traditional gouache, and I was wondering if it was archival or stable to use the acryla gouache as an underpainting, wait for it to fully dry, and then paint traditional gouache on top?  Would it be safer to gesso the acrylic underpainting area first?

        I guess this is also a separate question, but can you gesso an area instead of the entire paper?  Like for example if I’m painting a flower or a leaf, can I just gesso over that subject instead?  I have never used gesso yet but am planning to get some.  I am using cold pressed paper with some cotton content.  Thank you for your help!

        #1455006

        Gouache really needs an absorbent surface, I doubt if it would take on acrylic gesso. Did anyone try it?

        Doug


        We must leave our mark on this world

        #1455115
        marioz
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            In the past I’ve sized some very absorbent paper with a bit of acrylic matte medium, and painted with gouache on it. In general it worked well, except when I put too much acrylic medium, which caused the paint to bead. Diluted paint beads much more than thick paint. I don’t know how slick and smooth acryla gouache is, you should try. Anyway, you may have problems when you apply the paint, but when the paint is dry it should stick pretty well. Contrary to what people think, gouache sticks well to almost any surface: the dried paint on my glass palette is very hard to remove (glass is definitely smooth and non-absorbent!).
            Gouache doesn’t change with time; I think if the dried paint adheres now, it will adhere also in the future. My “old” paintings seem in good shape. But, as you know, gouache is rather fragile and should be treated with care (don’t scratch or bend the paper, etc).

            #1455749
            Farah
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                In the past I’ve sized some very absorbent paper with a bit of acrylic matte medium, and painted with gouache on it. In general it worked well, except when I put too much acrylic medium, which caused the paint to bead. Diluted paint beads much more than thick paint. I don’t know how slick and smooth acryla gouache is, you should try. Anyway, you may have problems when you apply the paint, but when the paint is dry it should stick pretty well. Contrary to what people think, gouache sticks well to almost any surface: the dried paint on my glass palette is very hard to remove (glass is definitely smooth and non-absorbent!). Gouache doesn’t change with time; I think if the dried paint adheres now, it will adhere also in the future. My “old” paintings seem in good shape. But, as you know, gouache is rather fragile and should be treated with care (don’t scratch or bend the paper, etc).

                Thanks for your reply!  Yeah I think acrylic gesso might not work, but acryla gouache is a matte velvety surface like traditional gouache, so maybe it’ll work!  I will give it a try :)

                #1455750
                Farah
                Default

                    Gouache really needs an absorbent surface, I doubt if it would take on acrylic gesso. Did anyone try it? Doug

                    Thanks for your reply!  That’s true now that I think about it.  But what about acryla gouache?  It’s a matte surface… I will have to try it and see, but I was wondering if anyone knew if that would be archival at all.  I’ve heard putting waterbased media on top of oil based is not archival, acrylic is made of plastic which is basically oil, so I was just wondering because some people say acrylic is a water based media but personally it doesn’t seem to be that way…but what would I know? lol.  Of course I know it is water based, but it’s technically made with plastic derived materials.  Ahh I’m rambling, sorry!

                    #1455828
                    marioz
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                        acrylic is made of plastic which is basically oil

                        No, acrylic is definitely NOT oil, it’s a completely different material! It’s more porous than we usually think (in fact conservators find it difficult to clean the dirty in the pores). I’m not suggesting to deliberately paint on a slick surface, but I believe gouache is very adhesive and rather adaptable to many surfaces (but doesn’t like to be bent).
                        Look at this post by James Gurney about using acryla gouache as a primer:

                        https://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2019/11/priming-for-gouache-painting.html

                        #1457163
                        Farah
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                            acrylic is made of plastic which is basically oil

                            No, acrylic is definitely NOT oil, it’s a completely different material! It’s more porous than we usually think (in fact conservators find it difficult to clean the dirty in the pores). I’m not suggesting to deliberately paint on a slick surface, but I believe gouache is very adhesive and rather adaptable to many surfaces (but doesn’t like to be bent). Look at this post by James Gurney about using acryla gouache as a primer: https://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2019/11/priming-for-gouache-painting.html

                            Thanks for the suggestion!!  I had seen another artist on youtube use acryla gouache to prime her sketchbook before taking it for plein air traditional gouache.  And yeah acrylic isn’t oil, I was thinking more about how plastic is made from oil.

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