Best way to darken a colour

[Anonymous]

firstly to identify the [I]target[/I] colour – what is the [I]value[/I], the [I]hue[/I], and the [I]chroma[/I] of what I am trying to get [B][I]to[/I][/B]. And then looking at what are the [I]closest[/I] colours I already have to that target,

I finally realized this and have subsequently employed this basic idea. If the dark orange I want is closer to burnt sienna then I start with that instead of starting with cad orange for instance. Thus I navigate through a shorter color space and find it more efficient.

[walt curlee]

I often times use paynes or black. For yellows and yellow ochre, sienna I use burnt umber, vandyke, and sometime alittle black too.

[gman123]

yes I did read.

[TRANCHINA]

Hi,:wave:

whats the best way to darken a colour not using black?
I have been using a brown umber.

Thanks

Well, answers regarding the “best” way will generally be tantamount to a particular artist’s subjective opinions and ideas. With such varying ideas and techniques in the world of painting, many artists will accomplish things very differently, and yet create wonderful works of art. Although opinions vary, if a person’s work is good, then that opinion is worth exploring. There has been some very good information presented, now you may want to start mixing and checking for yourself. There is no substitute, and you will be amazed at what colors will do when mixed. You may also find that without using black, you just aren’t getting to where you want to be.

I recently did a painting where I painted a person standing on a sandy surface. On the palette you would have looked at that color and never ever believed that it would be appropriate for it’s intended usage. Within the context of the painting, however, it worked very well, and didn’t look like a turquois blue, but rather a gray. This was due to the surounding colors. Therefore, much of painting depends on style. It can be quite technical, and difficult to judge color. If you are shooting for depiction of reality as close as possible, then arriving as closely as possible to certain colors is paramount. Certain color mixing systems are an aid to this. Anything that is an aid to accomplishing a task is of value, even if one chooses to primarily use another aid. Just multiple tools in the tool box.

Artists who practice can learn that they can save a great deal of money in materials by understanding color. For example is it truly necessary to purchase cadmium red, cadmium red light, cadmium red medium, and cadmium red deep? and can they be used interchangebly? I don’t think so. One could be purchased and mixed with other colors to approximate the full line(at least close enough for government work ). I’d go with thee light. Is this pertinent? I think so. Using this example, a person could spend $ 150.00, or $40.00, and accomplish something very comparable.

You may also want to go look at the work of artists in galleries, and when you find work that you like, find out if you can how that particular artist arrived at the finished piece. You may also want to consider a workshop with someone whose work you respect. In the physical world these things can be better learned by some folks via hands on practice, and in person observation.

The other issues that raise a multitude of ideas are: What is the best medium to use in oil painting (alkyd/copal/amber/balsams/polymerized oils,driers, etc.)? or the best support, or the best fixative, or the best varnish, or the best paint brand, or the best drawing implement, or the best manner or working (layers/alla prima/wet into wet/dry brush/etc.), or the best brushes/palette knives, or the best wood for palettes, or the best way to tint a support, or the best solvent to use, or the best way to frame a painting, or the best way to compose a picture (should we closely follow the golden mean, etc., etc.), or the use of stabilers, or the whole fresh made vs. tubed oil paint debate, or the best easel, or the lead-toxic pigments vs. safe organic pigments debate, or the best black to use, or the best way to address the issue of sunken colors (proactive priming-prep/oiling out/retouch varnish), best way to mix gray, etc………………………………

Not withstanding the above, don’t get any of us started on the cold pressed linseed oil vs. refined linseed oil thingy:lol:

You may also want to study how the masters of old worked. For example, actual green earth (not the modern high tinting strength hue containing phthalo green)was at times mixed with all colors on a palette and served to neutralize them, unify, and act as a stabilizer.

Don’t limited yourself by asking “what is the best way.” Rather, consider describing what you are hoping to accomplish, then get your plate and head to the buffet; just don’t take a hot plate to the ice cream machine:lol:

[Eduardo Flores]

Read these three pages:

[URL]http://www.huevaluechroma.com/061.php[/URL]
[URL]http://www.huevaluechroma.com/062.php[/URL]
[URL]http://www.huevaluechroma.com/063.php[/URL]

(yes, I mean everybody!)

Dave

Thank you, Dave, for supplying these links: fundamental concepts there!
The readers will also want to go to the “Home” page, because there is much more in that site…

Eduardo

My Oil Painting website: http://eduardofloresoilpainter.site90.net/
My Computer Art website: http://dadofl.wix.com/eduardo-flores---computer-art
My blog : http://meta-realism.blogspot.com/
"God gave the artist a window towards other worlds"

[llawrence]

You may also want to study how the masters of old worked. For example, actual green earth (not the modern high tinting strength hue containing phthalo green)was at times mixed with all colors on a palette and served to neutralize them, unify, and act as a stabilizer.

I hadn’t read that, though of course I’m immediately interested to try it. Can you tell me if there was a specific book where you got that information?

My website: http://www.rusticportraits.com
My artwork blog: http://llawrencebispo.wordpress.com
My art materials blog: http://sunsikell.wordpress.com

[Einion]

whats the best way to darken a colour not using black?

In line with many of the things already said, this question might best be answered by asking for further details.

[*]Which colour or colours?
[*]How much darker – just a little bit, or a succession of colours towards a very dark value?
[*]What’s your style/pictorial goal – realist, high realism, neo-impressionist, colourist?
[*]How do you paint – directly or in layers or a bit of both?

All these points really have to be borne in mind simultaneously, although you can look at 1 and 2 together to begin with.

Okay so you’ve been using a brown umber, let’s look at this in relation to the starting two points. Say you want to darken a mid-orange then a certain umber could be a perfectly reasonable way of darkening it successively (or at least a good starting point) since they are around the same hue. But say you want to mix a darker grassy green, then adding the same umber will work to darken the green and initially this could look okay to you, but it will also shift the colour more and more toward brown as you add increasing amounts, which is unlikely to be what you’re looking for in the darker values, yes?

So by looking at just 1 and 2 together it should be easy to see why using just one umber is likely to not be the best way – any more than any other single paint would be.

Last thing, using black might be the best way, depending on numerous factors including personal taste. So given this, would there still be a specific reason you want to avoid it? For example, are you just limiting your palette, hoping to simplify your painting methods, or is it because you believe that using black for this is inherently bad in some way?

Einion

Do you know if your colour is off in hue, value, chroma... or all three?

Colour Theory & Mixing forum WetCanvas Glossary Search Tips Advanced Search Acrylics forum Acrylics - Information Kiosk

[Einion]

Something else to always bear in mind is that we are mixing paints, not ‘colours’. So although that one umber I’m theorising above might work it can’t be guaranteed to work, even with two different oranges that look the same. Paints mix the way they do, not the way theory might predict they will, or “should”, based on their colour. In extreme cases this can even be a factor when comparing two paints that are made from ‘the same’ pigment, e.g. Cadmium Orange from two different makers.

This is something that is frequently overlooked or deliberately ignored in colour-mixing guides.

Einion

Do you know if your colour is off in hue, value, chroma... or all three?

Colour Theory & Mixing forum WetCanvas Glossary Search Tips Advanced Search Acrylics forum Acrylics - Information Kiosk

[midwest]

I skimmed over those links – AARRGGHH! OVER my head. If you are painting outside in warm light, shadows would be cool, right? So would you add a cooler color to the local color as it darkens, say a bit of violet to a local medium red, a bit of ultramarine to a sap green?

Kathie :

[dcorc]

I skimmed over those links – AARRGGHH! OVER my head.

What makes you think you can gain anything from skimming the links I gave? There’s a great deal of very densely, concisely-presented information there, and it repays careful reading, re-reading, and pondering – not skimming.

If you are painting outside in warm light, shadows would be cool, right? So would you add a cooler color to the local color as it darkens, say a bit of violet to a local medium red, a bit of ultramarine to a sap green?

Instead of formulas, why don’t you just look and see what the colours in different areas appear to be? Don’t necessarily think of trying to modify paint matching the local colour of the object, just ask yourself, area by area “what colour paint do I need to mix to match that“.

Just because the local colour of something is bright yellow, doesn’t mean that all your mixes have to be based on bright yellow paint.

davecorcoran.co.uk

[gunzorro]

Great thread! It hits on a number of “hot topics” that usually come up individually, but very interesting to see them getting tied together a bit, and on a nice introductory gradient.

Termini — Thanks for your comprehensive list of “best of’s”.

Dave — Excellent points! Thanks for the logic-factor by pointing out a systematic approach to solving color indentification and mixing problems. Most these difficulties get back not establishing the primary condition: to have an honest desire to observe what is actually in front of oneself!

Einion — Thanks for the additional slant on identifying and resolving color issues.

[monkhaus]

The David Briggs site is a treasure. When I first looked at it I freely admit I too felt like it was “over my head.” But like every other task in life that we set with the goal of becoming accomplished it takes work. If you want to paint with any degree of accuracy and skill, it takes work. I’ve printed out each chapter of the Briggs site as I work through the previous so I can take them on the bus, or wherever I have a place to read and take notes (same for Munsell). Work on my understanding, then begin testing, projects, etc. while rereading my source material.

And in no way does or will this detract from my “imagination,” but instead it allows me the grounding to be more productive, more accurate, and with a better sense of what I’m looking for instead of wasted time trying to hit a color.

And, frankly, it’s really interesting.

Termini, was that mix of one color through the palette what the Tonalists’ did?

[WFMartin]

Instead of formulas, why don’t you just look and see what the colours in different areas [B]appear[/B] to be? Don’t necessarily think of trying to [B]modify paint matching the local colour of the object[/B], just ask yourself, area by area “what colour paint do I need to mix to match that”.

There is a lot of logic, and credibility in those statements. They also speak volumes for viewing a subject in its entirety, and a specific color in its context within the scene, rather than attempting to isolate a color from its surround, for the purpose of mixing to match.

wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
https://williamfmartin.blogspot.com

[TRANCHINA]

Termini — Thanks for your comprehensive list of “best of’s”.

You’re welcome, but I failed to mention the whole best turpentine (harware/artist grade), or the best vermilion (or even if it is safe at all) and of course the whole student grade, artist grade or the finest grade of paints, distraction. Many of these issues can be quite distracting to the actual accomplishment of an oil painting. As we all know, there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

[TRANCHINA]

The David Briggs site is a treasure. When I first looked at it I freely admit I too felt like it was “over my head.” But like every other task in life that we set with the goal of becoming accomplished it takes work. If you want to paint with any degree of accuracy and skill, it takes work. I’ve printed out each chapter of the Briggs site as I work through the previous so I can take them on the bus, or wherever I have a place to read and take notes (same for Munsell). Work on my understanding, then begin testing, projects, etc. while rereading my source material.

And in no way does or will this detract from my “imagination,” but instead it allows me the grounding to be more productive, more accurate, and with a better sense of what I’m looking for instead of wasted time trying to hit a color.

And, frankly, it’s really interesting.

Termini, was that mix of one color through the palette what the Tonalists’ did?

Indeed, that was an interesting read. Regarding my earlier post, not exactly, the use of terre verte as I described predates the tonalist style, and to the best of my knowledge, they (tonalists) worked primarily with grays and browns, I could be incorrect about this though. The green earth has very low tinting strength, very subtle yet effective, and acted as does a clay in stabilizing paint. It is interesting to use it in a sort of tonalist manner with modern tube paint, in small amounts mixed in to every color on the palette. You may want to play around a little and mix some up. However, if you do, be careful, as much of what is now referred to as terre verte is a mix of colors often including but not limited to phthalo green. Look for PG23 only. Off the top of my head, I know that Blick Artists Oil Color makes this. I also have some old tubes of Grumbacher, but don’t know if the newer versions are the same.

JT

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