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LeAnne, Thanks for giving us the link to the National Gallery in Washington, DC as a “spoiler”. (Can you actually have a “spoiler”?)
It is very informative and just a really pleasant little “slideshow”.:clap:What mood does the palette create?
I have already said that it seemed warm and intimate- it seems quiet and reflective.Why would he chose to place the warm at the belly?
I have been avoiding finding any symbolism in her being pregnant. Besides my having made this mistake before
– While I know the Dutch often did use “hidden symbolism”, I also find it equally believeable to read “as is” without symbolism. While she does look pregnant to me, it does say at the National Gallery site that the fashions of the time made women look pregnant. I have heard this before about 17th C Dutch art. I do find it hard to believe but, many good art historians do say that this is so.
I could say that the red represents the vitality of the life within her, just for conversations sake. But I have one final problem, my jpeg of this painting has the brightest red being on the jewelry box lining and her stomach and the table being very similar colors. But Ok, the red is for the vital life within her.What differences do you observe in the choice of shapes and forms?
It is interesting to see those item made of straight lines like the table, floor, window, picture frame which cause abrupt stops in the flow of the eye path and then see the curved items the light against the wall, the woman, drapery, cloth on the table.
By the way, someone asked “What is she weighing?” It is said that she is weighing gold and pearls, but now they say that a closer inspection of the scales shows them to be empty. It does seem “odd” that she is so contently weighing nothing.
Bud, that’s a really good shape analysis. Very interesting.
Barb Solomon
my website at:
www.geocities.com/bjsart2000Perhaps she is holding the scales, waiting for the last judgement.
The colors present a sombre but serene feel to the painting, but in all practicality, I expect everyday clothes and household items would have been fairly dark. Because of wood or coal fires in a damp, cold climate. Because wool and velvet would have been warmer in such a climate, but don’t wash well!
The woman seems calm, or is it resigned? If she’s pregnant, she is waiting for new life, but, in those days, women died frequently in childbirth, so is that the juxtaposition of the painting of “The Last Judgement?”
Lyn
Edit: I’m glad I posted my comments before viewing that wonderful NGA presentation.
Thanks for the link.I don’t see any special red on her belly. Looks to me like it is just a continuation of the color of her skirt where the light highlights it through the top she is wearing. Funny how we like to make something from nothing
And I look like I am pregnant all the time not because I am but because I am fat and all my fat is in my lower body. I say that I look like a pregnant skeleton so she doesn’t have to be pregnant just have poor posture and bad figure.
And maybe he painted the way he did because that is the way he could paint. Doesn’t have to mean something.
While I have avoided reading anything in the woman being pregnant, I did find it interesting how the focus of this painting seems to be on the scale and her stomach. But I do need one or two other clues before I make an interpretation based on those symbols.
Barb Solomon
my website at:
www.geocities.com/bjsart2000Great choice, LeAnne
He was SUCH a master
I see the diagonal compoition as powerfully “lighting” the scale, the gold and jewelry and the Judgement paitning…..certainly an allegorical message there.
(Souls weigh little after all, no?)It seems to me that the focal point in the comp is her hand….
The colors are not necessarily somber …In that day those were normal colors….fabrics were died only a few hues…
His balance in this is totally amazing….(Pun intended)…look at everything on the left against everything on the right…and top to bottom
[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Pam
My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular. ~~~~Adlai E. Stevenson Jr.I think I know why the scales are empty. First, the scales, I think, represent Christ on judgement day weighing the souls of the good and evil. Second, the woman seems to looking at the jewerly(pearl necklace, bracelets,etc…) and the scale and maybe thinking that these things are empty & in vain( note the mirror in the painting ..typically representing vanity).
just an opinion… bud
I don’t see any special red on her belly. Looks to me like it is just a continuation of the color of her skirt where the light highlights it through the top she is wearing. Funny how we like to make something from nothing
Perhaps this will help. I went ahead and scanned the image from one of my art history books instead of relying on finding a web image (which is much more red than the original). The skirt bottom is fairly well shadowed. Unfortunately, the scan doesn’t pick up some of the subtlety. The drapery and jacket are actually a dark blue tint.
LeAnne
"What's my greatest work of art? My child."Fight and you may die. Run and you'll live, at least a while. And, dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance -- just one chance -- to come back here and tell our enemies, that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom! ~ William Wallace in Braveheart
As to the pregnancy discussion. If you research at the fashions of the time or even fashions of the area, the bottom of the bodice was hitting higher up on the ribcage during the time this piece was painted. This caused the underdresses and skirts to billow out at the waist. The bodice can’t really be seen here because she is wearing a jacket. There is also doubt as to whether the woman in blue (another Vermeer painting mentioned earlier) is pregnant because she is actually wearing a bedjacket that was fashionable at the time. Pregnancy was considered something to be hidden at the time. It wasn’t the subject of paintings and women were encouraged to hide the pregnancy. So, even though the woman holding the balance might be
modeled after Vermeer’s pregnant wife, it’s probably not good to assume that is the focus of this painting. Now, let’s talk a little bit about the portrayal of values and light. Vermeer is considered one of the masters of light.
Questions for the group:
How does the portrayal of light contribute to the mood?
How varied are the value ranges?
How do the value ranges lead the eye?
What qualities of light do you see and where? Reflected, ambient, etc?LeAnne
"What's my greatest work of art? My child."Fight and you may die. Run and you'll live, at least a while. And, dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance -- just one chance -- to come back here and tell our enemies, that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom! ~ William Wallace in Braveheart
I am a novice at this kind of analyzing of a painting, but I can give my initial impressions.
The first thing that hit me was all the straight horizontal and vertical lines, all the hard squares and rectangles that contrasted with the soft, round form of the woman’s body. No matter where I look on the piece, those lines draw me back to her… especially her belly.
The lightest point of the painting, and where the light (what little of it there is) emphasizes is the woman’s white hood/veil and the white fur going down the front of her outfit. This white shape immediately reminded me of many classic versions of the Virgin Mary, as well as white clothing or veil being a very virginal symbol on a woman. Then, a dark and foreboding painting of the Judgement, complete with squirming sinners (bottom), is actually framing her head.
This gave me the feeling that this painting is about a moral judgement, or a moral decision. The scales reinforce this for me, as scales seem to be a common symbol for decision… or, what lays in the balance, so to speak. So, I think, what is being judged?
Well, the picture is of a seemingly pregnant woman who is counting her material wealth (coins, jewelry) in a darkened room. I understand that, at this time, paint colors were limited and paints precious… but it seems to me that the window is partially covered, as if she did not want anyone to see what she was doing. She is also wearing white fur, another sign of her wealth.
The strongest color, red, is used in the areas where the artist wants us to notice something. Interesting that her (pregnancy?) dress is red, which is sometimes a symbol of lack of morality or promiscuity, while her jacket is in a black and white pattern and style similar to the habits worn by monks and nuns. There is also a reddish area on the window curtain, which seems to imply that the half-drawn shades has a meaning. The table top is warm red tones, to draw the eye to the scale and display of wealth symbols. And, there is that powerful red God hanging over the woman’s head… hmmm.
My 2 cents… I will be interested in other’s comments.
Nance
JoyJoyJoy ( i love that name !!
)Very interesting comments. I just love these threads. They teach me so much about something I know nothing of :confused:
I really look forward to them each week.
I would like to thank elikat for pushing us to look further into this. …. and I cannot wait for her imput. ( i think she knows something we don’t know )"Art is an act of love in likeness of itself - Spirit moulding matter into lovely form:"
"His act in us for Him."
Francis Brabazon - Australian Poet.
I am finding that I am seeing this painting differently as the week goes on.
When I look for symbols that could be read in a definite way, I can see the Judgement painting, the mirror (traditionally for vanity), the pearls. With the Judgement painting, the scales take on an allegorical meaning.
I have also been struck by the white on the woman’s clothes that adds so much emphasis to her actions and thoughts.
It definitely seems to be about the “weighing of souls”.
Barb Solomon
my website at:
www.geocities.com/bjsart2000well, I thought we were talking about composition first…so I didn’t say what I thought of the “message”
I don’t see it as gloomy or dark…..I see the balance of weighing mortal goods (gold, jewelry) against the “light” (spirit, soul)
The woman connotes the Mother, Sophia, the feminine principle
(whether or not she is pregnant can add a further dimension to the spiritual message)SInce the BG painting is THE LAST JUDGEMENT….it all fits together…and the light being ABOVE and OUTWARD would signify the lifting of souls toward Heaven
*shrug*
Just some thoughts in MHO
P
[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Pam
My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular. ~~~~Adlai E. Stevenson Jr.I would like to thank elikat for pushing us to look further into this. …. and I cannot wait for her imput. ( i think she knows something we don’t know
)Lol! To quote Sgt. Schultz from Hogan’s Heroes:
I know nuh-ZINKG
Seriously though, I will post some info about it, but I think everyone is doing a fantastic job with this piece. I’m not asking questions because I specifically know the answer. I just wanted to ask questions that get people thinking about specific elements and really analyze the piece. The piece is brilliant on so many levels. I’m just using questions to try and help get people in an analytical frame of mind.Questions for the group:
1) How do the objects in the painting contribute to it’s meaning?
2) How is the theme of “balance” carried throughout the painting?
3) How are the clothing and pose of the woman used to contribute to meaning? Do they mean anything at all?
4) Why are the pans in the balance empty?
5) How do the technical elements of the painting itself reinforce the meaning?LeAnne
"What's my greatest work of art? My child."Fight and you may die. Run and you'll live, at least a while. And, dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance -- just one chance -- to come back here and tell our enemies, that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom! ~ William Wallace in Braveheart
Lol! To quote Sgt. Schultz from Hogan’s Heroes:
Seriously though, I will post some info about it, but I think everyone is doing a fantastic job with this piece. I’m not asking questions because I specifically know the answer. I just wanted to ask questions that get people thinking about specific elements and really analyze the piece. The piece is brilliant on so many levels. I’m just using questions to try and help get people in an analytical frame of mind.Questions for the group:
1) How do the objects in the painting contribute to it’s meaning?
2) How is the theme of “balance” carried throughout the painting?
3) How are the clothing and pose of the woman used to contribute to meaning? Do they mean anything at all?
4) Why are the pans in the balance empty?
5) How do the technical elements of the painting itself reinforce the meaning?Don’t let this die Kat. We all await your imput. Hurry, hurry – it is almost Monday already.!!
There is a painter I saw on ARC – a “living master” who I would like to show & tell – may I.? – for the next one?
It is not in the league of these old guys, – but more an analysis of technique. Would that be interesting do you think.?biki
"Art is an act of love in likeness of itself - Spirit moulding matter into lovely form:"
"His act in us for Him."
Francis Brabazon - Australian Poet.
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