Home Forums Explore Media Watercolor Palette Talk Amateur or professional?

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  • #988582
    charliedawg
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        I recently submitted work to a local juried exhibition where the entry form asked whether you were amateur or professional – I indicated that I was an amateur. I mentioned this to a fellow artist and she thought that maybe I should have said I was a professional. Basically my situation is that I have never trained as an artist and have never earned a living as an artist – I am now retired and have more time for painting and essentially cover my art costs by selling paintings and prints in local galleries and via my website.

        So the question is – what criteria should I use to decide if I am an amateur or a not very successful professional?

        Happy painting
        Walter
        http://www.walterwatsonart.com

        #1138990

        Walter,
        Many of us are in the same place you are as to our painting. My view on this is “professional” painters make a substantial part of their income from their art — selling works, teaching classes, giving workshops, writing books, etc.

        I don’t think it is essential to have trained as an artist in an art school or have a degree in fine art to be a professional though. I’ve read several articles and books written by or about people I consider to be professionals who call themselves “self-taught” artists.

        Amateur artists on the other hand enjoy painting, sell some of their work, enter exhibitions and shows, takes classes, etc.

        I consider myself an amateur even though I teach a class now and then and even sell a piece of art occasionally.

        It will be interesting to see what others think.

        Sylvia

        #1139013
        Captain G
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            If you sell your paintings, especially in a gallery, I think that makes you a professional. It’s like a homeowner who fixes his own home and a professional who makes a living fixing other peoples homes. Training doesn’t make you a professional, it’s how you use that training. The classes I attend are taught by a self taught artist, who makes her living through teaching and selling her work. She is a professional although she states she is a self taught artist. I think Sylvia is right, if you make a substantial part of your income from your art, that makes you a professional. Just my two cents.

            Bill

            #1139007
            Ray72113
            Default

                Interesting! If you paint to sell and sell, you are professional. If you paint for fun and sometimes sell, maybe you are serious amateur. If you paint for fun, and give away, not sell, you are an amateur.

                #1138996
                charliedawg
                Default

                    Hi Ray -I have fun painting but sell some and donate part of my art-related earnings to charity – so the question remains -what am I? I have Googled this a bit and there have been quite a few attempts to define “professional artist” but I don’t think there is agreement across the board.

                    With regard to training, learned professions tend to demand relevant academic qualifications, continuing professional development and membership of relevant learned societies but art is not like that – so it is a difficult one.

                    My own situation is that I started off painting for fun and then sold a few and it has now got to the stage where galleries and festivals invite me to exhibit. However, my sales basically are at a level where they just cover my costs, so in no way do I earn a living from painting.

                    Happy painting
                    Walter
                    http://www.walterwatsonart.com

                    #1139012
                    Marcio C
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                        Walter, my view is that your discomfort, as with many of us, lies less in the difference between amateur and professional, than between that of professional and Professional. I explain: To me, the moment you offer your work for money, you make a business of your craft, you are no longer an amateur. Someone buys your work because they consider you a professional artist; I believe in respecting that (in other words, if you consider yourself an amateur you should not attempt to sell your product).
                        But we recognize there should be a distinction between being merely a professional (someone that does something as part of their work) and a Professional (where we have an implication of mastery of the craft, of exclusive dedication, etc.), but there is only one word for it, and nothing that indicate different stages, criteria, or degrees of professionalism. We feel we are somehow cheating if we claim we are professionals, but create art only part time and are not at the same level as our instructors and master artists. It’s complex: There are many people out there that paint full time and get all of their income from sales of what may considered by many “amateurish” work. Are they professionals? What about Van Gogh, who was definitely not amateurish, who was fully dedicated, but didn’t make any sales… was he a professional?
                        Well, I aspire to paint well, and am learning; I would like to quit my day job to paint full time, but cannot afford to do it (yet?); but I do show my work, put a price tag on it, and make some sales, so I have to declare myself a non-amateur in a professional path! cheers :)

                        #1138991

                        I Googled “Professional Artist” to see if I could get a good formal definition. I couldn’t. But, I did find the following:

                        [INDENT]Glossary of Canada Council Terms
                        Commonly used by the Canada Council for the Arts.

                        February 2005

                        Professional artist
                        An artist who:

                          [*]has specialized training in his or her artistic field (not necessarily obtained in an academic institution);
                          [*]is recognized as such by his or her peers (artists working in the same artistic tradition);
                          [*]is committed to devoting more time to the artistic activity if this becomes financially feasible;
                          [*]has a history of public presentation.

                        [/INDENT]

                        So, at the end of the day, what does this really mean to us? As Mario has said, there isn’t an adequate gradation of the word “Professional” to be meaningful… so it’s all a little fuzzy and open to interpretation.

                        Char --

                        CharMing Art -- "Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art." Leonardo DaVinci

                        #1138992
                        juneto
                        Default

                            I think , if you have Galleries , have prizes , work at it most of the time , have studied extensively and sold , you probably qualify .
                            Shows , Prizes and Recognition count for a lot , but Not just locally . JMHO
                            june

                            Follow your Bliss and the Universe will open doors for you , where there were only walls. Joseph Campbell


                            http://blogmomcom.blogspot.com/

                            #1138988
                            Flattwo
                            Default

                                Hi Walter

                                My view is that if you can produce a painting to a professional standard you can claim to be member of the artistic profession, if you cannot reach the required skill level, you are an amateur, the general public will judge if an artists work is worthy of parting with their hard earned cash, amateur or professional

                                Regards

                                Henry

                                Henry

                                #1139017
                                AZ Traveler
                                Default

                                    IMHO, if you sell your art to pay the mortgage, put food on the table, gas in the tank, travel to shows to display your wares full time, etc., etc., consider yourself a professional.

                                    As for the majority of the rest of us, I paint because that is who I am but it isn’t my whole life. I have a full time occupation/career that pays my bills, etc. Friends, or friends of friends, know of my art and purchase a piece for someone’s birthday, something for the mantle, or just because they like it. A few times a year people will ask me to participate in a local art faire or university department fund raiser where I display and sell my art. However, by no means, if’s, and’s, or way, does that make me a so called “professional.”

                                    By the way, what did you enter on your tax form(s) as occupation? Artist? Retired? Working stiff? … ’nuff said …

                                    [FONT="Georgia"]Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure." ~ Marianne Williamson, A Return To Love: Reflections on the Principles of A Course in Miracles

                                    #1138997
                                    charliedawg
                                    Default

                                        Hi folks – probably many of us have sold a painting or two and are happy to still be considered as amateur artists, while someone setting out to make a living by selling their paintings or teaching art etc would rightly consider themselves to be a professional artist. Now somewhere in between these two situations you must switch from being an amateur to being a professional – but where? In the UK, we have a national minimum wage – so maybe that could be the defining point at least in the UK – if you earn over the minimum wage you are a professional.

                                        PS to AZ Traveler : – I do declare my earnings from art to the taxman but as my art-related expenses, framing, materials, etc are about the same as my earnings, I don’t think the Revenue get too excited…………….

                                        Happy painting
                                        Walter
                                        http://www.walterwatsonart.com

                                        #1138993
                                        juneto
                                        Default

                                            One Note ,if you do say Artist on your Taxes , be prepared to show an IRS Agent, Proof of it . My Degree teaching, showing and sales were not enough . I began to keep a Diary of all Art.functions after that .
                                            Beware. They might even check out how really active you are.
                                            June
                                            I know first hand as my husband, as my attorney , argued my case with an IRS agent personally .He finally allowed my deductions. It was over 40 years ago, so maybe things have changed .it pays to be careful . Maybe my experience can help you some .:cat:

                                            Follow your Bliss and the Universe will open doors for you , where there were only walls. Joseph Campbell


                                            http://blogmomcom.blogspot.com/

                                            #1138998
                                            charliedawg
                                            Default

                                                Hi June – I think you are absolutely right about keeping records. I have a spreadsheet detailing all paintings and prints, prices, whether sold or not, detailed expenses and schedules of delivery to galleries, etc – makes it a lot easier to fill up the tax form although basically the sums involved are pretty small beer. If the taxmen are looking for me to get the UK out of its current debt-ridden state they are in for a severe disappointment.

                                                Happy painting
                                                Walter
                                                http://www.walterwatsonart.com

                                                #1139008
                                                Ray72113
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                                                    Walter, I think you are a professional. That getting invited to exhibit does it for me. I have been asked to NOT bring anything to the gallery!!!!!!!:thumbsup: and If it weren’t for non-profits, I would still have all I have painted.

                                                    #1138999
                                                    charliedawg
                                                    Default

                                                        Hi Ray – keep at it – I have got the “bums rush” from a good few galleries………… or was it a few good galleries!

                                                        Happy painting
                                                        Walter
                                                        http://www.walterwatsonart.com

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