Home Forums Explore Media Casein, Gouache, and Egg Tempera Alternative Egg Tempera Ground

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  • #1476927
    Shadedeyes
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        Hello! This may be a strange request. I’m interested in learning egg tempera, but I’d prefer not to use rabbit skin glue to prepare panels, since I’m a vegetarian. I’m fine with using animal products (like eggs and dairy), as long as they weren’t produced by killing the animals in question. RSG obviously doesn’t meet that criteria. After a few google searches, looking for an alternative, I found that it’s apparently possible to paint ET over casein. But before I rush out to prepare casein gesso, I have a few questions about it. Would ET behave any differently on this type of ground? Or have issues with adhesion? If so, are there any alternatives to Casein or Traditional Gesso? And what can I use to size the panel before gessoing it, since RSG isn’t an option for me? Thanks!

        #1476982

        After watching James Gurney’s demos, where he paints gouache over casein, I don’t think it will be a problem.

        Doug


        We must leave our mark on this world

        #1477026
        marioz
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            There is an article about a commercial casein gesso on Jackson’s site:

            https://www.jacksonsart.com/blog/2017/11/07/sinopia-chalk-ground-casein-gesso-egg-tempera/

            As far as I know, Koo Schadler is the author who discusses more in depth the question of grounds and supports (and any other question regarding egg tempera, actually). I suggest that you buy her book on her site, it’s very complete and well done. Her view is that nothing behaves like true rabbit skin glue gesso, however some alternatives are decent (including some modern materials). She says painting on top of pure (= with no oil) casein paint is ok, but the commercial casein gesso she tried had oil in it, which she didn’t like. So you may want to prepare your casein gesso, to avoid any water-repellent ingredient.

            Another option is to use heavy, smooth watercolor paper, which you can glue on a panel if you are super-worried about flexibility. But remember that many (not all, I think) watercolor papers are sized with… hide glue.

            #1477239
            Shadedeyes
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                Thanks for all the information! I wasn’t aware that commercial casein gessos can contain oil, or that watercolor paper can be sized with hide glue! I’ll have to steer clear in that case. I don’t mind having to prepare my own gesso, so I suppose I’ll have to go ahead with that, instead of searching for one without oil. It would probably be less expensive that way anyway!

                I’ve actually had my eye on Koo’s book for a little while, I just haven’t gotten around to purchasing it yet. But it’s good to hear that it’s very comprehensive. Egg tempera is a relatively niche medium, compared to oil or acrylic. So it’s been harder for me to find instructional information that went suitably in-depth on how to use it. Especially in a non-traditional way. Most seem to subscribe to Cennino Cennini’s method, which well… doesn’t appeal to me.

                #1477263
                marioz
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                    I wasn’t aware that commercial casein gessos can contain oil

                    That’s what Koo Schadler says. Regarding watercolor paper sized with hide glue, that’s the traditional way, but today there are alternatives. I just checked: Fabriano Artistico is a “Vegan Friendly product”, for example. Arches, on the contrary, says the paper is “sized to the core with natural gelatin”, and in fact it smells like hide glue when it’s soaked.

                    Koo Schadler’s book is good and very comprehensive. Another good book is Altoon Sultan’s “The Luminous Brush”, which you can download for free from the author’s blog. Shorter but complete.

                    [It seems that Wetcanvas doesn’t like a direct link to the blog, my message has been removed. So go to Altoon Sultan’s blog, and scroll down a little, on the right column.]

                    #1496291
                    Artsoo
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                        natural pigment sells panels made for egg tempera/casein

                         

                        https://www.naturalpigments.com/supports/tempera-panels/tempanel.html

                         

                        #1496907
                        Trond
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                            I have tried egg tempera on a ground made from commercial casein. It seems to work excellently. I used a wood panel that I first moistened with casein fixative and then spread casein white plus a bit yellow ochre. Egg tempera naturally contains protein and oil components so I think it’s a good match.

                            #1496909
                            Trond
                            Default

                                Here’s another thing you can try: seal the panel with slightly thinned egg white, let dry, perhaps sand lightly, and then scumble the panel with a thin layer of egg tempera (I use two parts marble dust and one part titanium white in a thin layer).

                                #1498937
                                Shadedeyes
                                Default

                                    Thank you for the suggestions Trond! I actually already tried something similar to your second suggestion, though on a small piece of scrap pine wood instead of a panel, and using egg glair as opposed to the unmodified white. If the test didn’t work, I didn’t want to waste a panel, after all. I found that while it was possible, the glair raised the surface of the wood, producing small bumps and ridges. This may have been because I used pine, a softwood, as opposed to a hardboard panel like those Ampersand produces. But I imagine a similar problem would arise even if I were to use a better, more suitable wood. I also found that while it was possible to scumble a few thin layers of tempera on top of this preparation initially, after a few months the surface cracked and started to flake. Even on a rigid panel, the glair is too brittle on its own to support an overlying painting. I’d likely need to add something else to it, such as gum arabic or honey, perhaps both, in order to increase the plasticity. And even then, it may not be enough. The results may have also been better if I’d tried attaching a layer of canvas to the wood before sizing and preparing it. Both in order to mitigate the issue of raised bumps on the surface, and to give the white and yolk a more absorbent surface to bind to. I may try this in the future, though I don’t think it would make sense for me practically speaking. I would need a large volume of egg whites and yolks in order to prepare even a moderately sized panel. Not to mention, both the glair size and the tempera preparation would have a very short shelf life.

                                    I may have to try a casein preparation in the future, but for now, I think I’m going to try to see if I can create a PVA ground suitable for tempera. Natural pigments sells a PVA based ground on their website, though having used it, I found it too slick and slippery. I was able to get the tempera to adhere, but I had issues with layering. The paint lifted off the ground too easily, and it wasn’t absorbent enough for my taste. It probably would have been a fantastic ground for tempera grassa, but not so much for pure tempera. This is why I’m going to attempt to produce one myself, to see if I can increase the absorbency by moderating the amount of calcium carbonate and water in the ground.

                                     

                                    #1499267

                                    Nah, this is an amazing request. I heard about the stench of RSG and didn’t want to go into egg tempera. I am not vegan or vegetarian but I try my hardest to never come across something like a foul smell of a dead animal. This is fascinating to me and I’m interested in this conversation. Thank you.

                                    I enjoy watercolors and studying watercolors and getting tons of pigments and seeing their variations.

                                    #1500074
                                    Trond
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                                        I know the wood ridges you speak of, and no in my experience it does not happen on all woods. Perhaps sealing with pure (or thinned) casein medium could work? Then scumble with white tempera (again I think adding marble to the tempera improves the surface)

                                        #1500774
                                        Shadedeyes
                                        Default

                                            I may try a different type of wood, or sealing the surface with casein as you’ve suggested. But I think it may make more sense to just mount a cotton or linen canvas to the panel, and sidestep the issue altogether. A canvas mounted to a panel is more archival anyway, since it can be removed if the panel were to become damaged, or rot.

                                            #1508578

                                            Robert Vickery, look him up…he used egg tempera in a more contemporary manner…He has written two books to my knowledge on doing just that. :)   Wish I had read your post last year ..

                                             

                                            PhilB

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