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Old 01-18-2012, 07:38 PM
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Re: Painting with the Masters Jan-Feb 2012: Dutch 17th Century Still Life

My earlier post is gone too .
Wow , great work everyone and fast too !
I guess I'll be a 'tail- end- charlie' this time.
I'd like to do this one by Elias Van den Broeck.
'Still Life With Roses' is the title [ I think]
Patricia
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:47 PM
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Re: Painting with the Masters Jan-Feb 2012: Dutch 17th Century Still Life

Just testing,
I just posted a message 5 minutes ago but it hasn't appeared here even though it's listed as posted on the main forum page.
Patricia
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:12 PM
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Re: Painting with the Masters Jan-Feb 2012: Dutch 17th Century Still Life

I see that posts were deleted.
Were they the ones with reference images to chose from?
I'd like to jump into this study session, but need a little guidance.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:56 PM
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Re: Painting with the Masters Jan-Feb 2012: Dutch 17th Century Still Life

I see my previous 2 posts are now here !

Here's my WIP.
Have done a very quick drawing on the canvas using water colour
pencil this time - just to get the positioning right, will build up the
detail with the paint layers.
Patricia
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:01 PM
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Re: Painting with the Masters Jan-Feb 2012: Dutch 17th Century Still Life

Hello everyone, please forgive me for being away from the project for a while. First I wanted to wait and see if the deleted posts came back (some have, some haven't) Then I was sick for a couple of days. Why does all this have to happen while I try and host a project!

Now I am back - I promise I'll catch up with your progress and respond to your posts tomorrow morning .

Susanne

Last edited by Marigold : 01-22-2012 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:28 AM
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Re: Painting with the Masters Jan-Feb 2012: Dutch 17th Century Still Life

Hi patricia , nice start on your Van den Broeck flower painting! I like the original a lot, it has very graceful arrangement and beautiful lighting. It seems to get a lot of its interest out of the fine and relatively high-contrast detail in the leaves - this will be a challenge. I am looking forward to watching it develop. What size is your copy?

Sharkbarf, welcome to the project!< You can select one of the 4 stillives in my opening post, or any other stillife from the period that you like. As additional source for possible references, I have given the link to the Rijksmuseum database in post #2. It will be easier to give guidance once you have selected a reference. I will make no long general posts anymore since one that took me till 3am to write has vanished.

Hi EZ-ED, This looks very cool, I love it! Looks very warm and almost alive. I like how you kept all the transitions esp. in the statue rather soft, also your darkest shadows seem lighter to me than in the original which in this case works very well. Did you use blue at all (in the book), or is this just black?
Thanks for this beautiful contribution to the project.

Susanne
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:33 AM
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Re: Painting with the Masters Jan-Feb 2012: Dutch 17th Century Still Life

Quote:
Originally Posted by kindawet


fred

Hi Fred,

I like that you did a warm underpainting in earth colors, and I like that you kept the edges soft for the most part. Your ellipses are not entirely correct on the silver plates – yours look like they are seen more from above than from the side. Some further suggestions:


Goblet: I would paint the details of the goblet in semiopaque color in white (white+raw sienna is okay) and umber or umber/black mix. After that you could glaze the filled part of the goblet (incl. the base) with a transparent yellow, so you get the warm glow of the wine. The strongest highlights are added at the end with pure white. Some of the beauty of those Dutch still lifes comes from the variation in the highlights: some are glazed over in color, some are pure white, some are thin and soft and some very thick.

Silver cup: It is looking good so far. I would refine the form now a bit, esp. the bottom needs softer gradations – you can use the same colors you have used so far, and apply them thinly in semiopaque layers that leave the underpainting shine through a bit. The yellowish color in the original is probably due to darkened varnish, I think you could leave it less yellow and more silver. The delicate engravings I would keep for the end when you are otherwise totally happy with the cup.

To get thin, semiopaque layers of paint, you can apply some painting medium very thinly to the dry surface (dab with a cloth to remove excess) and then paint into it. Jessica has recommended to me a 50:50 mix of linseed oil and turpentine which so far has worked well for me.

I hope I am not confusing you, I always talk too much These are just suggestions, and I am almost as new to this as you are…

Susanne
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:19 AM
EZ-ED EZ-ED is offline
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Re: Painting with the Masters Jan-Feb 2012: Dutch 17th Century Still Life

The only blue I used was in the ribbon in the right bottom corner. Book I think was done in umber and aliz.
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:12 PM
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Re: Painting with the Masters Jan-Feb 2012: Dutch 17th Century Still Life

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSegev
Hope there are some works in progress!

Here's my update after the first full color layer.


Hi Mary, this is breathtaking and you did it so quickly! How are you working so fast in layers with all the drying time? I love your painting, it is almost an exact copy and the colors are beautiful. The different reds and greens are great!

I am struggeling with this one, my format is too small (12x16in) because at first I had a lower resolution reference picture and could not see all the detail. I still have no information about the size of the original. What size is your painting?

Quote:
If you look closely at the original, you'll notice a lot of red-brown showing through all over the painting, so the red-brown underpainting is making my job easier.

Yes, I also think the brown is important in order to give warmth and unity to the picture. I did a brown ground over the whole format. It is about the same value as your brown background, but for me this may be too dark because I did not leave out the flowers, so brilliance / covering strength may become an issue - I hope not I found that leaving shadows transparent (using ground color) is a beautiful thing - but it only works when I get the value of the ground exactely right. Which I never do because there is nothing yet to compare it to From what I can see in the reference De Heem's ground color must have been a bit lighter than in both our versions.

Did you find it helpful to indicate the patterns on the tulips, carnation etc already in the grisaille? I was in doubt, because these are not shadows but just red surface patterns.

Thanks for your wonderful contribution to the project!

Susanne

Last edited by Marigold : 01-23-2012 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:20 PM
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Re: Painting with the Masters Jan-Feb 2012: Dutch 17th Century Still Life

Quote:
Originally Posted by friesin
Here is my still life after some layering. Glazing was not really possible because the white in most of the blossoms.
I don't know why, but I obviously cannot help but simplify in painting

Hi friesin , how is your painting coming along? Simplifying is good - you did a great job capturing the main shapes. Some of the flowers could need some more shadow inbetween the petals... I would keep the shadows rather warm not too cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZ-ED
The only blue I used was in the ribbon in the right bottom corner. Book I think was done in umber and aliz
Thanks EZ for the information. The "fake blues" that you can get with just black keep surprising me.

Susanne
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Old 01-24-2012, 02:21 AM
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Re: Painting with the Masters Jan-Feb 2012: Dutch 17th Century Still Life

Hi Susanne, glad you're back! Hope you have fully recovered and will continue sharing your process with us.

I think it only looks like I'm working fast, because I begin drawing and blocking in simultaneously. I had premixed the paints I was to use for the monochrome underpainting and worked wet in wet for the most of it. It took the underpainting three days to dry, - then I began scumbing in the first color layer, (to be followed by application of thin glazes in later stages).

I'm working on a 40x50cm cotton canvas, which is, by all means, the least advisable surface for a copy. Your choice is great! Just look at some of the petals of the original:



Susannne, I'll address the rest of your comments later. Thank you for running this beautiful thread! It's really great doing challenging studies together as a group.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:33 AM
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Re: Painting with the Masters Jan-Feb 2012: Dutch 17th Century Still Life

Hi Mary, thanks for your reply. I wish I had used a larger size like you - some day I will have to stop chosing my formats according to available wall space in my appartment You are right about the wonderful detail of the petals. (I wish I could see it for real.) I know I will not be painting the ants - will you?

My job leaves me with very little time to paint, but the great thing about this painting is that I can try a couple of flowers a day and will still make progress.

I am doing mine a little differently than you, painting the form of the petals first and leaving the surface pattern for later. My titanium white is pretty stiff but I don't want to thin it with oil yet, because my main concern is to get good coverage and having bright enough base for the flowers. Because of that I did not manage to paint in fine and fluid strokes like De Heem - I'll leave that for later as well.


Last edited by Marigold : 01-25-2012 at 03:12 AM.
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:13 PM
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Re: Painting with the Masters Jan-Feb 2012: Dutch 17th Century Still Life

Susanne, it's looking good!
Take your time, - there's really no need to rush. You're making great observations and have a good plan.

Your panel looks very smooth, is it wood?

The patterns on the petals are so amazing, - wish I knew how Heem painted them. I'm not sure if it was helpful for me to indicate them in the underpainting, - it was a matter of looking at value shifts.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:40 PM
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Re: Painting with the Masters Jan-Feb 2012: Dutch 17th Century Still Life

Susanne, how did you make your white petals look so 3-dimensional? There is no stuff within the colour, is it?
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:49 PM
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Re: Painting with the Masters Jan-Feb 2012: Dutch 17th Century Still Life

Susanne and all:
I continued on with this when the site was having trouble. And so I am leaving the yellow in the painting as it looked to me in the original. Thanks for your comments! I corrected the plates and may still do more on the plate resting on the table. I did a few washes by mixing turp solution on the palette and blending the color I choose. Will try your suggestion of wetting lightly the canvas and painting in the color. Hey, this is fun and I'm learning! Please excuse the red on the surface of the liquid. My camera lies! In the painting it is not so evident and I will take further steps to mute it. So far ...



Fools rush in ...

In the meantime I have started the flower painting. Old canvas covered over with a mixture of burnt siena and burnt umber. Its too dark and eventually I am going to attack it with more siena, perhaps raw siena. I underpainted everything with a titanium white wash. Now I have added colors and am quite pleased at the outcome. The yellow flower bothers me as I don't know how to accomplish the darker surface - maybe painting it with yellow ochre? Have not put in the muted colors for the other vegitation. I noticed someone previous had a vase but my photo of the original shows only hints of it on the bottom right.

Once more this fun and deep thanks for providing the occasion and tudoring.
Will check for your updates and hope that your health is better!

fred
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Last edited by kindawet : 01-25-2012 at 06:02 PM.
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