I don't understand the Derwent 24 color pencil set...

thevaliantx · #1 12-08-2011, 12:02 AM

I'm trying to draw an apple (I'll upload the drawing tomorrow....or rather this morning...wait, it's 11:59pm, well, crud....it's 12:00am, so this morning (been up 27 straight hours now) and the only colors I see in the set that can come close to the yellow/orange on the apple is a bright orange pencil, and a bright yellow pencil. I tried blending the two, and no dice. I even tried smudging the whole apple with my fingertip, hoping to hide the glaring separation of the red and the orange. What am I not understanding? Do I need more colored pencils? Should I be using the Prism set instead?

Einion · #2 12-08-2011, 03:47 AM

I've moved your question from Colour Theory to the coloured pencil forum, where you're much more likely to get useful input on your question

Einion

gbritnell · #3 12-08-2011, 08:00 AM

It's not necessarily the Derwent set. Even the Prisma set with 24 colors is going to limit what you can do with it. If you do landscapes you are going to use different colors than if you do portraits. I would just buy some open stock pencils that you think might help you finish the picture you're working on then slowly buy a larger variety of colors with the type of pencil you like best.
gbritnell

**TessDB** · #4 12-08-2011, 08:37 AM

Hi, Valiantx!
Posting an image of the apple you're working on can help us give you better suggestions.

And what sort of Derwent pencils are you using? They make several types of cp's and each behaves differently.

That being said, cp artists tend to sneak up on the color they want. By layering the colors together, they'll blend together and give you the look you're wanting. But it takes more than one or two layers-- some cp artists use up to 20!

And those layers often have pencil choices that would surprise you. Which is why making test swatches and little practice bits is *so* important. It's the best way to discover if a *little* bit of a pencil is perfect, but too much of it makes ... gick.

Your paper choice can have a big impact on how the pencils behave, too. What are you using?

Rosemary

PlaysWithPencils · #5 12-08-2011, 08:45 AM

How about testing on a scrap Deep Cadmium layered first then the Orange Chrome layered softly over that?
Light layers are always our friend.

thevaliantx · #6 12-08-2011, 12:40 PM

Are light layers supposed to always go on last? Thanks for all the replies!

It is not easy for me to upload my drawings because they are taken by a cellphone (Android Charge), and the process of going from taking a photo to actually renaming the image on the computer is kind of clunky.

thevaliantx · #7 12-08-2011, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlaysWithPencils

How about testing on a scrap Deep Cadmium layered first then the Orange Chrome layered softly over that?
Light layers are always our friend.

Since I do not have those colors in my Derwent 24 CP set, I'm wondering if individual Derwent pencils can be bought?

This also has me wondering whether you guys would prefer Prism or Derwent. Prism, to me, felt much like drawing with eye liner (I used to a little bit of CD'ing), and the colors seem to my uneducated eye to be more intense.

PlaysWithPencils · #8 12-08-2011, 01:55 PM

Maybe I was looking at the wrong type of derwent, those were in the 24 set.
I always do light layers from the first however I do take forever to do any work.

thevaliantx · #9 12-08-2011, 03:49 PM

I feel like an idiot, sorry about that. Both colors are there in the set, it's like to my mind they are 'orange' and 'grey' or something like that. I know NOTHING about color.

clydeine · #10 12-08-2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thevaliantx

Are light layers supposed to always go on last? Thanks for all the replies!

It is not easy for me to upload my drawings because they are taken by a cellphone (Android Charge), and the process of going from taking a photo to actually renaming the image on the computer is kind of clunky.

I dont know.. I always work light to dark using the color i see in the very back or under the other colors first. Seems to work for me but I have heard of people do the dark colors first. It was the way I learned to draw and paint watercolors.

birdlady · #11 12-10-2011, 07:06 PM

after looking for your drawing I got it from the art journal and see what your talking about. Can you give me the names of the pencils your using to create the drawing so far? I tried to see the names on DB but couldnt. I might suggest you use many layers of colors to come up with the apple. Would love to see the ref picture if u have it. I would use many colors in the apple... green, BS, red, yellow, prehaps the orange. But in layers starting with the light one first working to the dark. Use a practice piece as suggested.. I do that a lot even on the back of the drawing. I use museum mount board for my drawings. Hope to see more from you on this apple.

Laurie

HMMMMMMMMMM OK Tess can u get it to show up ...plllleeeeeaasssseeee

robertsloan2 · #12 12-14-2011, 10:46 PM

It really does matter which line of Derwent colored pencils you have!

Derwent Coloursoft are very soft and waxy, also very opaque compared to other brands of coloured pencils. They are the most blendable ones, easiest to get soft edges and blend colours with a lot of pressure.

Derwent Artist and Derwent Studio both have the same core material. It has a "Dry" feelling and they are quite hard, comparable to Prismacolor Verithin. They are best suited to using light tonal layers, the best way to combine colours with them is to have a light hand and go over and over with different colours.

The best technique for something like the apple with the Artist or Studio lines is to start with a tone drawing in the darkest colour of the subject, or even in a complement. Use a dark green to establish the darks. You're going to go over this in at least half a dozen layers building up through dark red, bright red, orange, yellow, reserving all the light colours. Where there are bits of apple green or may green (the light yellow greens) don't add any of the orange layers, just use the light green and go over it with yellows.

Finally, it helps to purchase the Derwent Burnisher and Blender set. The Burnisher is rather firm and will give a high gloss finish, while the Blender is softer and more like a Coloursoft without any pigment. Use the Blender to mix colours. Use the Burnisher to get a shiny hard surface that doesn't move the colours around as much.

Test them on swatches of paper to get the effects you want before using them.

You can also blend or burnish with White. Getting one white Coloursoft pencil will give you something like the Blender, you just need to go over it again with the colours if it fades out too much.

If you have the Derwent Academy pencils, I don't know their texture. If you're not getting super soft blendability like Prismacolor, they are probably more like Artist/Studio.

24 colours is enough to mix anything you want by hue. The trick is to get the mixing down right and create soft edges. Making the soft edges with the firm Artist-Studio core material is closer to soft shading with a graphite pencil. Making soft edges with Coloursoft is more like a soft squishy Prismacolor type of blending and it's harder to do the light layers, there's always a temptation to really grind down and put a lot of the soft smudgy core down at once.

thevaliantx · #13 12-15-2011, 01:52 AM

Hey, guys, thanks so much for the comments, and thanks to Laurie for pulling one of my works into this thread, even though I realize it may not be the correct thread for that.

As for the reference for the drawing, I ate it. (if I had a dog I'd blame him)

I just went up the makeshift studio room (no heat in there, sitting in there to draw right now would be like sitting in an outhouse in the middle of january, I miss those days), and it's the Derwent Studio set I have.

A little bit of my problem in that drawing is that I had not had any sleep for so long, and I think I was just wanting to get the drawing finished. If I had been more patient I might have given some thought to blending colors on a swatch. This does illustrate my lack of knowledge in color theory.

I'm having a hard time visualizing doing so many layers to create blending.

vhere · #14 12-18-2011, 09:05 AM

The Derwent Studios do actually mix beautifully - so I'd guess it's the paper you are using.

I've been given the full set by Derwent to test out and you can see what I did here

The initial scribbles (not shown) were on lightweight 75lb paper - when I moved on to the heavier 110lb pad they behaved SO much better. They blended beautifully and could be subtle and pale or really vibrant. I've also been given the Artists set but haven't got round to testing them yet.

It's worth practising colour mixing - any colour mixing advice for paints will work much the same with cps. Try various techniques - Robert's burnishing suggestion is a popular method and his advice on soft edges is good It's important to build the colour slowly, not go in too deep straight away, that enables better blending between colours and time to adjust and balance it all.

try lots and lots of soft layers of different colour,s building a deeper colour that has hints of all its components - that's a way I tend to use them. I only very very occasionally burnish.

They are nice pencils

PlaysWithPencils · #15 12-18-2011, 09:31 AM

Plenty of wonderful advice from others more capable then myself.
I would suggest just grabbing some scrap paper and trying every thing out then return to that drawing a little more confident.
All in all it is practice to get you beyond the place you are so you can never go wrong. Or at least that is how I see each time I attempt to draw something.
You can do this!

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