Session 1- Composition for the Painter...discussion, assignment - Page 4

LarrySeiler · #46 10-08-2011, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneChilton

Thank you, Larry, for the excellent lessons - I'm thinking about things I don't normally! And thanks for all the help getting this far.

I chose a painting by my favorite Van Gogh.

Jane

you are on to it Jane!!! And I like that you have executed actual sketches!! Whoo Hoo!!!

This is good stuff...

I see a real simple design mechanism to grab attention of the eye, direct it, then to prevent losing the eye off the lower left trailing edge that little bitty spot to the right of the main tree says, "OOOoohhh...no you don't viewer's eye! C'mon back up here and look at me!"

Classic "S" or "Z"...assymetry, all good!

JaneChilton · #47 10-08-2011, 05:07 PM

Thanks, Larry - your "S" pattern is so much more obvious that my contortion!

And Robert - thanks for the notes - there's stuff my audio missed.

Jane

LarrySeiler · #48 10-08-2011, 07:03 PM

Hey Jane, what is important is that we see your sense of ordering the world you paint...and that you cultivate a routine that you build on.

Sonni · #49 10-08-2011, 07:32 PM

I've scrolled through these, looking for sketches, black and white and gray ones on those 3x5 cards or whatever, and don't see many. Outside of Larry's input, sketching the analysis, that is. To my mind, the real learning happens when you physically take up pen,pencil or charcoal and have at it. Yes, it's a little work. But then, isn't that what this exercise is about, rather than circling and making arrows on ready made art?

In the meantime, I'm casting about for a really bad composition in my bucket collection (an excellent place to find them) and find I'm reluctant to sketch the "badness." Mostly this is because I know they didn't work and that's why they are in the bucket collection to begin with. Larry, if you have an opinion on what is to be gained from doing an analytical sketch of one of them, I'd be glad to hear it--preferably before I burn them.

Amandine · #50 10-08-2011, 07:47 PM

Hello Larry,

As mentioned previously, here's my 2nd part of homework. This is a painting I did 15-16 months ago. It's a real flop. Note how I have 3 rectangles, 3 train tracks. Also, I have a boring line of trees going from left to right. The shack is lost within trees. I put it in b&w because I don't want to show how I spoiled the sky and the water.

I painted it from the following photo. I sticked too much to it. I hadn't been painting for a long while at that time and wasn't enough concerned with composition rules.

I worked the photo in Photoshop to crop it, removed a big part of the sky and cut some trees on the right. With that done, I did a little sketch where I cleared part of the shack so we can see it, moved the big rock to the left and the little dock to the right with a small boat, changed the line of the left hill.

What's your opinion ?

LarrySeiler · #51 10-08-2011, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonni

Larry, if you have an opinion on what is to be gained from doing an analytical sketch of one of them, I'd be glad to hear it--preferably before I burn them.

Learning what to do...is naturally important, but conversely learning and recognizing what NOT to do also has its important place. Also an education.

When I work with students I emphasize til nearly blue in the face the value of not pulling out the eraser. The complex of lines laid down trying to find true form are indicators not only of what is right, but what is wrong. Why repeat the same error when one can learn from it? Needless to say...the eraser is reached for again and again...and instead of drawing being a positive outlet, it is one of a negative, that is...striving not to mess up, instead of enjoying the process.

If you already know what is the culprit for reasons the work has not worked, I would suppose keeping them is a nil or moot point. If they become reminders of what not to do...and there is risk the reminding grows feint with their departure.

LarrySeiler · #52 10-08-2011, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amandine

What's your opinion ?

I like that you're working it out...and that you're intent to better understand this...

Here is just one (of many) possibilities when I look at this picture. At once, it reminds me of many places right here where I live in northern Wisconsin, and in upper Michigan...

Dropped the horizontal lay of the masses way down, giving more room for sky, and greater opportunity for the nearer mass to invade that sky, allowing to build character in the trees. I have positioned one of the more explosive cadmium colored trees at the right rule of thirds, and the painting could really become a statement about that tree's voice in the narrative. You could lower the distant mass so that the top of the trees of both near and far are not close in competition. Who is to say we are not closer to the shore, thus allowing us to be more invasive with the statement?

Photos...and nature itself are really models...for reference. They exist as your playground to do as you will. When you understand paintings work for reasons paintings work...you manipulate to please the eye, and what is fun is when you yet capture the mood and spirit of the place. Folks familiar will yet go..."oh yes...that's home away from home! Love that place!"

Amandine · #53 10-08-2011, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarrySeiler

At once, it reminds me of many places right here where I live in northern Wisconsin, and in upper Michigan...

The photo was taken in Eastern Townships (Québec), a wonderful area where I live, lot of beautiful mountains and lovely lakes.

So, if I understand well, I forget about the shack to concentrate more on the colorful trees. I crop less of the sky and a bit more of the water. Am I right ?

I'm not really used to sketch. But I should do more of this exercise. As you say, it helps to figure out the best composition, the best lines.

Thank you very much.

LarrySeiler · #54 10-08-2011, 09:28 PM

The spatial properties of the scene are one of more privacy...intimate privacy on the part of the cabin holder I should think. This is one of those moments where if everything is shouting, nothing gets heard. To represent the cabin fairly, you would have to give it more prominence...one that is hardly warranted, IMO...but yes, the shoreline, the moment, allows for such..

this is a plein air I painted this past Monday night..and video taped it as a demo for part of session three. It is an Impressionist effort...painting the color of the light.

Compare that with the same location where I painted more the subject as it held place, juxtaposition against the sky...etc., the purpose featuring the trees as subject...

what I'm saying is...the subject is an excuse. A "cause"...once you learn to love paint. You play games and say...this time I will respond to the light...this time I will feature this, and downplay that...so on and so forth.

Don't make too much out of what a thing must be, unless it is commissioned. A job...

Seek to celebrate, with paint as your means to do so. Life...a gift...!

Amandine · #55 10-08-2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarrySeiler

This is one of those moments where if everything is shouting, nothing gets heard.

I think I'm starting to understand ...

Lowe · #56 10-09-2011, 04:09 AM

I hope you don't mind Amandine I like your photo and I made a little sketch of your photo to try to convey what I saw in the composition.

for me, there is a z formation in the sky which is reflected in the water. It kind of jumped out at me as soon as I saw the picture. Of course it may be that I am obsessed with "z's" who knows. When you look carefully the z in the water is visible both in darks with a corresponding relfection in light. The reflections are mixed in with the reflected colours of the trees. So for me the picture is in the water and the row of trees brings my eye back to what is in front of the trees

Lowe · #57 10-09-2011, 07:22 AM

Thanks Larry for your analysis

painterted · #58 10-09-2011, 11:44 AM

I have been looking at this painting for the last couple of days, and I can't see the center of interest. Is it that dark hill way in the background, that's what the lead in's suggest to me, am I correct?

ted

pastelmimigt · #59 10-09-2011, 01:04 PM

Hi Larry,

This isn't following your assignment exactly, but I hope you don't mind as it is trying to work out a good composition. Here's the original photo:

I especially like the angled water line, but cropping it to show that leaves out a nice focal point. So I cropped it where I though the focal point looked the best and then in GIMP angled the waterline:

\

I chose this crop to have the tall tree as the focal point. I'm still not sure I like this enough to paint it. And would love to get your feedback.

Thanks,
Michele

Susan Peltonen · #60 10-09-2011, 02:57 PM

Hi Larry,
Thank you for a great lesson last week! After looking at the works of various artists, I've decided to pick a painting by Sargent for my composition homework. It was a little easier than many to try to figure out. I hope I've come close to what you were asking for.

"Street in Venice 2"

by John Singer Sargent:

The diagonal lines (blue) lead the viewer's eye into the picture, and create a sense of depth. There are three planes which further help create depth: the foreground consisting of the three large standing figures, the middle ground consisting of the 2 smaller seated figures, and the background consisting of the building at the end of the street. And possibly a fourth plane of structures above the far building.

When I look at this picture my eye focuses first on the figure of the woman to the left of the center line (green). She catches my eye possibly because she is facing the viewer and is lower on the page and seems to be walking straight at me.

My eye then moves in a circular pattern (red arrows): first, over to the two male figures on the woman's right, then back to the two seated figures, then forward again to the woman.

The angled buildings on either side of the street converging to meet the building in the background, act as boundaries, and give the figures greater strength within the picture plane. They help to hold the viewers interest in and keep the eye from wandering out of the picture.

The main areas of interest (the figures) are all contained within the right two thirds of the picture plane (black grid lines).

Value Sketch:

Sargent uses asymmetry to visually balance his light and dark areas within the picture plane (the one third / two third ratio).

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