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Old 10-06-2011, 09:05 PM
Tresgatos Tresgatos is offline
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Re: Session 1- Composition for the Painter...discussion, assignment

Hello Larry,

I very much appreciate your taking so much time to give my painting a constructive critique. It does help me to understand why I was feeling that "something wasn't quite right" about it. I have much to learn and believe the practice of looking at the Master's paintings and trying to dissect them will help me to understand what good composition is.

Thank you.

Barbara
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Old 10-06-2011, 09:55 PM
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LarrySeiler LarrySeiler is offline
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Re: Session 1- Composition for the Painter...discussion, assignment

Quote:
Originally Posted by spirothet
The photo I chose comes from the Ref Library of WC. It show large vs small in the bushes as well as light/dark. Thanks, Cali





didn't know, Cali...if you were intending to do this or not? That is...using a marker or pen and a sketchbook or index card to analyze. I would not use this reference as is...since it divides the canvas in half horizontally. Plus the brush comes to a height near equivalent to the tops of the mountains. In other words, a poor camera angle for an ideal painting.



A couple possibilities...raise the mountains up...as the end of my powerpoint suggests...who is to say you might not be standing closer to those mountains when taking a photo? But it creates variation...and invades the upper plane more...gives more prominence to the brush as well.



or a lower to the ground view...brush raising above the distant mountains...and a panoramic format...
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Last edited by LarrySeiler : 10-06-2011 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:14 PM
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LarrySeiler LarrySeiler is offline
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Re: Session 1- Composition for the Painter...discussion, assignment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tresgatos
Hello Larry,

I very much appreciate your taking so much time to give my painting a constructive critique. It does help me to understand why I was feeling that "something wasn't quite right" about it. I have much to learn and believe the practice of looking at the Master's paintings and trying to dissect them will help me to understand what good composition is.

Thank you.

Barbara


my pleasure, Barbara...
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:29 AM
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siberart siberart is offline
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Re: Session 1- Composition for the Painter...discussion, assignment

This is a painting by Sidney Laurence, Alaska's premier plein air artist. Probably should have started with something simpler, but here it is.
Attached Images
  
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Last edited by siberart : 10-07-2011 at 11:33 AM. Reason: change a word
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Old 10-07-2011, 12:42 PM
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LarrySeiler LarrySeiler is offline
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Re: Session 1- Composition for the Painter...discussion, assignment



first thing I suggest is to squint and slightly blur your vision...

next focus on values and see what jumps out-



then with an index card or sketchbook...using a sharpie or pencil, ballpoint pen-



and I think...it is much more plain to see the simplified manner which Laurence has gone about creating the orchestration of the elements and main narrative...
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:00 PM
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siberart siberart is offline
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Re: Session 1- Composition for the Painter...discussion, assignment

Thanks Larry. Looking for another example and try again.
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:19 PM
Lowe Lowe is offline
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Re: Session 1- Composition for the Painter...discussion, assignment

Ermm I understand what we are doing. However I am not satisfied with my analysis of this picture.

I like the painting and it caught my eye. But I cannot work out why?

This is the picture



In the fields Stepan Feodorovich Kolesnikov (Adrianopol 1879 - Belgrade 1955)
In the Fields
signed in Cyrillic and dated ‘S. Kolesnikov 1919/I/10’ (lower left)
gouache on board
14.2 x 27.9 cm (5⅝ x 11 in)

http://www.masterart.com/PortalDefau...ectID =164324

and my analysis. I think I need some help

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Old 10-07-2011, 04:36 PM
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Amandine Amandine is offline
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Re: Session 1- Composition for the Painter...discussion, assignment

This my 1st part of homework.
I chose a painting from Clyde Aspevig, a really great landscape painter. The photo comes from his website where it's allowed to save pictures on our computer. Title of the painting is : On a Good Year
Then, here's what I've done on this painting. Put a grid on it to locate the thirds ; note contrast between lights and darks ; found some guidelines ; discovered a "S" form in the sky, between clouds. The "S" in the river was easily noticable but I was amazed to discover how one can set a sky (meaning clouds) so that you get nice curves in it.
After that, I turned the photo in black & white and added a filter so it's blurred. I now can see masses only , this would be of help to make a little sketch.
In a second part, I may work on one of my failed paintings, doing the same exercice and trying to come to a sketch where the composition would be better. I'll try to work on that during the week-end.
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:19 PM
JaneChilton JaneChilton is offline
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Re: Session 1- Composition for the Painter...discussion, assignment

Thank you, Larry, for the excellent lessons - I'm thinking about things I don't normally! And thanks for all the help getting this far.

I chose a painting by my favorite Van Gogh.



My value simplification (sorry it's blurry - I'll drag out the tripod next time, I swear).



Oh, how my eye (personally) traveled through van Gogh's painting - up from the bottom to the left, around the tree, back down to the right, up tot left to tree again (love that tree).



My value sketch on it's side.



To me the tree balances well with the entire lower half because of it's single large dark value against the great variety of higher values in the lower.

Jane
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:22 PM
JaneChilton JaneChilton is offline
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Re: Session 1- Composition for the Painter...discussion, assignment

Having looked at my analysis on this thread, I think I should have made a large area across the mid-lower half a little darker. Oops!

Jane
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:20 AM
tukai tukai is offline
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Re: Session 1- Composition for the Painter...discussion, assignment

Thank you for the explaining it very clearly. I understand all the rules when you explain but i can't seem to do it on my own. I will try to up load if i can manage to to figure out. Thanks again.
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Old 10-08-2011, 09:39 AM
Lowe Lowe is offline
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Re: Session 1- Composition for the Painter...discussion, assignment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowe
Ermm I understand what we are doing. However I am not satisfied with my analysis of this picture.

I like the painting and it caught my eye. But I cannot work out why?

This is the picture



In the fields Stepan Feodorovich Kolesnikov (Adrianopol 1879 - Belgrade 1955)
In the Fields
signed in Cyrillic and dated ‘S. Kolesnikov 1919/I/10’ (lower left)
gouache on board
14.2 x 27.9 cm (5⅝ x 11 in)

http://www.masterart.com/PortalDefau...ectID =164324

and my analysis. I think I need some help


I have thought about this now and see the following


There is a quite subtle (or at least I see it as subtle) Z shape moving across the picture. I think the foreground and the central position of the composition traps my eye and makes it rest on the middle of the painting between the one third grid lines. The left grid line is poorly placed and I should put it over the figure of the man. The main elements are all then trapped inside the centre square. The two white areas on the right and left create a balance. The right white space attracts the eye before it comes back down to the middle point of the picture, I think. Or perhaps the eye bounces between the two while areas.

The trees at the back on the right line up to discourage the eye from moving behind those trees and brings it back down to the middle.

The more I look the more I see





Last edited by Lowe : 10-08-2011 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:01 AM
Judibelle Judibelle is offline
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Re: Session 1- Composition for the Painter...discussion, assignment

Lowe...I see a circle around the horse and up into the tree branch and back down around the guy at the left. Even the twigs seem to bring the circle back around.......
but that's just me....i'm just learning to 'see'!
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:23 AM
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LarrySeiler LarrySeiler is offline
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Re: Session 1- Composition for the Painter...discussion, assignment

I like how you are working this out, Lowe...of "In The Fields"

Like anything, this takes time to learn, to make a habit...and more importantly revealing and telling for you.

Here is the thing I'd like to convince folks of...if you make this a habit for a good while, in time you will come to realize you no longer are taking works of art in by others passively. Your mind is at work. Working thus, you are developing a sense of what will work as better visual design solutions for your own work.

There is a lot of mediocre art in the world...if you want to raise a level, it takes doing something others are not likely to do. This is one of those. So often when I point out something fundamentally flawed with an artist's composition or design it brings a "oh...wow, I didn't see that!" kind of response.

Why wait to be told and see it in hindsight...?

Work..wrestle, and get on top of this...

The other thing...I like your use of threshold in Photoshop...which is closer to drawing and revealing what I would like folks to look for as an aide in seeing better. I prefer these exercises with actual physical drawing. I think when you draw you are engaging parts of the brain and observational critical thinking skills not otherwise tapped.

I did a quick simple sketch of this one myself-



was impressed by the complicated asymmetry here...and IMO how important that little dark value is in the lower 4-5 O'Clock position circled in red is. Without that little spot painting (which I submit was no accident, but intended by the artist for this purpose), this painting would not have a working design/visual balance. Very cool...

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Old 10-08-2011, 11:44 AM
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LarrySeiler LarrySeiler is offline
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Re: Session 1- Composition for the Painter...discussion, assignment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amandine
This my 1st part of homework.
I chose a painting from Clyde Aspevig, a really great landscape painter.


He is the man, isn't he? What a painter for our time...

you've noted some good things, especially the classic "Z" or snaking of the "S"

couple things I too pick up, which translates thus to me as clever use of asymmetry..



note how he extends the right point of the river just beyond the central divide line, this assures we don't get two paintings going on in one, by juxtaposing and invading one side of the canvas into the other. Same with the cloud. Note how that river weighs to the left of the line and yet hugs it..



the sloping cloud lines form a directive for the eyes to move to the right...which further balances asymmetrically the darker brush/elements and river edge on the lower left..

nice stuff...good observations!!!
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