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Old 08-13-2011, 01:35 PM
Schwal2tz Schwal2tz is offline
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Winsor & Newton Artists' / American Journey Watercolor Paints

Is there any difference between Winsor & Newton Artists' and American Journey Watercolor Paints (Tubes) beside their prices?
I want to buy some Watercolor tubes for my new palette. For the same color, American Journey offers much cheaper price.
Is there anyone tried both of them and could give me some advice?

Thank You
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Old 08-13-2011, 02:16 PM
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Re: Winsor & Newton Artists' / American Journey Watercolor Paints

i really dont know- in my mind a color is a color and i dont care who made it.
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Old 08-13-2011, 02:35 PM
claude j greengrass claude j greengrass is online now
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Re: Winsor & Newton Artists' / American Journey Watercolor Paints

Quote:
Originally Posted by kate252
i really dont know- in my mind a color is a color and i dont care who made it.

Perhaps your painting techniques do not expose the differences that exist in the various watercolour manfacturers. I see considerable differences when painting wet into wet, particularly with granulating and/or flocculating colours.

This thread has some information on these two manfacturers.
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Old 08-13-2011, 02:38 PM
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Re: Winsor & Newton Artists' / American Journey Watercolor Paints

Generally, I prefer Winsor Newton but have tried several American Journey colours that I am fond of and use more sparingly. I don't know how they are made, but several seem more dense (not chaulky) and possibly use a different formula than Winsor Newton (but not honey).

If you check pigment numbers you can approximate quite a few of the Winsor Newton paints with reasonable satisfaction.
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Old 08-13-2011, 04:37 PM
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Re: Winsor & Newton Artists' / American Journey Watercolor Paints

It is thought that American Journey watercolor paints are made by DaVinci. The two lines of paint have some common colors, but each has some colors unique to their individual brand.

I've used AJ for over 20 years and think they are fine paints. They are artist grade and ounce for ounce (or ml for ml) about the best value for the money in the U.S. Outside the U.S. is apparently another story. Trade restrictions and tarriffs, I suppose.

W&N are also fine paints, with which one can't go wrong. Each paint manufacturer will have slightly different colors for a given paint, even if they use the same pigment(s). This is due to how each manufacturer goes about their unique manufacturing process. Manufacturers also differ in the fillers/binders they use. For example, some use honey and others don't. W&N apparently have slightly different binders in their pans as opposed to their tubes. Other manufacturers say they have no difference between their pans and tubes.

At the end of the day, if you use artist grade, lightfast paints from any globally recognized paint manufacturer you can be assured of quality and durability for your paintings. After that, it's just a matter of personal choice and cost.

Your best advice may be to simply select a paint manufacturer and use them for a long enough period to learn what their paints look like, how they handle and your personal preferences. Switching from manufacturer to manufacturer is a good way to make learning about paint and preferences an infinite journey! Of course, if one likes journeys that could be a good thing!

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Old 08-13-2011, 04:43 PM
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Re: Winsor & Newton Artists' / American Journey Watercolor Paints

Virgil, a good practical suggestion to use one manufacturer for a while! Otherwise, it can get overwhelming.

Shirley
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Old 08-13-2011, 05:38 PM
plantcrone plantcrone is offline
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Re: Winsor & Newton Artists' / American Journey Watercolor Paints

When shopping for my new upgraded palate, I bought both AJ and WN, as well as Holbein, Ultrich and Dick Blick paints..mostly for the specific color.

I quickly noticed, specifically with reds and greens that the same name did not equal the same color! By accident I bought both a Daniel Smith Perylene Red and a Daley/Rolan (sorry that might not be the right speling..I just call it DR). They are totally different colors-The DS is a true red and the DR is a blued or blood red. As I paint a lot of roses, I find uses for both.

I pick by general color, I do a lot of mail order and they take back what I don't like with no problems....go with what you like. And don't feel the need for brand loyalty.
plantcrone
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:13 PM
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Re: Winsor & Newton Artists' / American Journey Watercolor Paints

Quote:
Originally Posted by claude j greengrass
Perhaps your painting techniques do not expose the differences that exist in the various watercolour manfacturers. I see considerable differences when painting wet into wet, particularly with granulating and/or flocculating colours.

If you have time, I'd love to see you expound on this thought. What do you look for in a paint, and what are the characteristics that please/disappoint you?
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Old 08-14-2011, 07:50 AM
claude j greengrass claude j greengrass is online now
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Re: Winsor & Newton Artists' / American Journey Watercolor Paints

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watusie3
If you have time, I'd love to see you expound on this thought. What do you look for in a paint, and what are the characteristics that please/disappoint you?

I'm in England right now and I have a verybusy schedule for the rest of August and all of September and maybe part of October, but once I'm through that, I intend to try out some different papers and several different manufacturers paints. This won't be a comprehensive study of paints like Bruce M. on handprint.com but some simple painters tests on 4 or 5 different papers using 4 or 5 different colours from a few different manufacturer. Also this won't be for everyone as I like earth colours and granulating colours so if you paint with transparent washes my thoughts and tests may not be to your liking.

Example: Nickel azomethine yellow PY150. Someone mentioned this colour to me and praised it so much, the next time I ordered paint from DS I bought a tube. I tried it out soon after I received it and almost ruined a ink and wash of Zuse. I found that Azo Yellow is very imobile. It stays where you put it when painting wet into wet and doesn't blend well with other colours on the paper. I haven't tried it since, but will do on a test strip to see if that was just a one off.
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Old 08-14-2011, 10:09 AM
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Re: Winsor & Newton Artists' / American Journey Watercolor Paints

I'm rather keen to see your tests as I have been taken up with testing my own hoard of paints on various papers and rather surprised at the results. However, many of my tests have not been on standard watercolour paper but vellum or cartridge paper. And although paints from various manufacturers can easily be mixed, I am finding that the results do vary and using a single manufacturer may be best for the lessons I am doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claude j greengrass
I'm in England right now and I have a verybusy schedule for the rest of August and all of September and maybe part of October, but once I'm through that, I intend to try out some different papers and several different manufacturers paints. This won't be a comprehensive study of paints like Bruce M. on handprint.com but some simple painters tests on 4 or 5 different papers using 4 or 5 different colours from a few different manufacturer. Also this won't be for everyone as I like earth colours and granulating colours so if you paint with transparent washes my thoughts and tests may not be to your liking.

Example: Nickel azomethine yellow PY150. Someone mentioned this colour to me and praised it so much, the next time I ordered paint from DS I bought a tube. I tried it out soon after I received it and almost ruined a ink and wash of Zuse. I found that Azo Yellow is very imobile. It stays where you put it when painting wet into wet and doesn't blend well with other colours on the paper. I haven't tried it since, but will do on a test strip to see if that was just a one off.
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Old 08-14-2011, 10:55 AM
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Re: Winsor & Newton Artists' / American Journey Watercolor Paints

Claude, I will look forward to that.

In the meantime, can any propose for me a test methodology for doing my own analysis of the "mobility" of individual water colors? I'd like to do a systematic categorization of my WCs to identify those which are "immobile", as Claude says, and those which are active, so that there are no more surprises.
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:12 PM
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Re: Winsor & Newton Artists' / American Journey Watercolor Paints

I think what you may find is that "mobile" characteristics to which you refer have less to do with who manufactures the paint (and the brand of paper you use), than they have to do with the paint characteristics themselves.

For example, there are transparent, opaque and staining watercolors (one can develop further categories if one wishes). When mixing paints wet in wet, one finds:

--Transparents: Mix nicely with one another and spread reasonably on damp paper (the small pigment particles move around well)
--Opaques: Often don't mix with one another with very good results and tend to stay where they are applied (unless the paper is saturated, and even then those big-bodied pigments don't spread far)
--Staining paints: Mix quickly with one another and may spread rampantly (most staining paints have very small pigment particles that move quickly on damp paper)

At this point, some watercolor painters simply give up and limit their palette to transparent paints only. Doing so gives up a tremendous painting power and diversity. For example, most transparent paints are light valued, and will not go dark without loss of hue intensity. Painters using only transparent paints often have to use "darkening neutrals", such as Sepia, Indigo and Payne's Gray, to make darks.

The real painterly challenge to learn is how these categories of paints behave when they are mixed with paints from other categories, for example, what happens when an opaque is mixed with a stain, or when a stain is mixed with a transparent?

It's these inter-category mixes that can produce some wonderful, painterly color effects. They can also produce some not-so-pleasant surprises. Thus, making reference sheets of the various possibilities is a useful exercise for a lifetime of painting.

With just a little investigation one will also determine that:

--Some transparent paints are also staining, due to modern production methods that create very small pigment particles;
--Some opaques are whitened, others are blackened, and some are granulating with wonderful effects when dry (granulation is not limited to opaques);
--Most staining paints become transparent with just a bit of added water.

IMO, one can spend a lot of money and time buying paints from many different manufacturers and papers from still other manufacturers and testing them all out. It's lots of fun!

More useful knowledge, however, may be gained from buying a range of artist grade transparent, opaque and staining paints from a known reputable manufacturer and seeing what happens when they get mixed together on artist grade, 100% cotton paper.

Of course, your milage may vary!

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Last edited by virgil carter : 08-14-2011 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 08-15-2011, 06:20 AM
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Re: Winsor & Newton Artists' / American Journey Watercolor Paints

I like having fun Virgil . Wouldn't life be dull if everyone stuck to the same things .

Peter
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:55 AM
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Re: Winsor & Newton Artists' / American Journey Watercolor Paints

Peter, you are such a wild and crazy guy!

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Old 08-15-2011, 03:14 PM
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Re: Winsor & Newton Artists' / American Journey Watercolor Paints

Wild and crazy ! No, not really. Pretty dull actually but inquisitive.

Peter
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