Attempt at composition - 2 - Painting

[SmokeyForest]

Well, This thread is getting hard to follow.
If your problem is separating the two planes. The artist painting the mural ( plane2), from the artist in the mural (plane1). Then I would paint plane 2 as realistic as possible and plane1 more impressionisticly.(more vaugely ) .
Additionally , you could have a hand with a brush ( you , plane 3) applying final touch up work to either plane 1 or 2.

[Mayberry]

Yeah, and the triange of the people is nicely balanced by the diagonals of the building and the mountain. Lots of stuff going on in there now. I like how the guy on the ground is looking up at the guy on the ladder.

You might want to play with having a diagonal line of some sort extending off the bottom edge of the picture plane, like a shadow or crosswalk line, providing a linear connection to the viewer. Well, I guess you do have some lines down there, kind of faint, not sure what you plan to do with them yet. But that would help to emphasize the 3 levels of world effect.

[kirants]

Hi Woody, sorry for the ambiguity. Not my intention at all. You have a point about different rendering styles to separate. While that is certainly one approach, am trying to keep that difference low, and instead trying to make the viewer delve a bit more deeper and find the differences in other ways ( like flat shadows cast on the plane 1 by objects in plane 2. I don't want to give it all out plainly. Having said that, my experience with watercolor is extremely limited, so a venture like this might sound kind of stupid. I wish to give it a try though. Thanks for your inputs.

Hi Cathy, thanks a bunch! From what I gather from your notes, it seems the second mockup is working better, correct ? Yep, that guy in the ground looking up was needed for the visual path flow , as well, the shadow cast by him is important in subtly telling the viewer that it is a wall behind him and not a 3D depth. Am not clear on the bottom edge you mention ? Where exactly ? Left-bottom edge ? Right-bottom edge ? Or elsewhere ? I had left some wishy washy lines in the lower portion to kind of given of unfinished brush stroke, to give an impression that the whole thing you are seeing is in turn a painting ( albeit , painted by me ) . Makes sense ?

[kirants]

Hm... time to resume work on this !! Had been working on some more refinements to this, so preparing a true-to-painting-size charcoal study, so , once am happy, I can trace it on to the watercolor paper and work that way, instead of having to scale it. This is as far as I have gotten. The construction lines on the doorway at the right are intentional.

Will let it lie for a few days, so am sure I am happy with it. In the meantime, please comment or critique

[CharM]

What an interesting thread! I like where you're taking this composition...

I feel that the shadow of the seated man isn't reading correctly...

If you consider your figures to be "shapes", then the man on the ladder is connected to the seated man... I think I'd like to see the artist connected in some way also... the three shapes combined would make an interesting pathway to your background interest.

The building's corner in your second sketch had a drain pipe that I kind of liked, too... In the third sketch it's difficult to discern the building's planes...

[kirants]

Hi Char, thanks a lot for the wonderful critique. You bring up good points. I'll think about how to connect the three figures better. Have no clue how right now, but let's see. Will think about the drain pipe also. I know I put it there with a reason, but was feeling as if it was splitting the picture. Perhaps that is not the case after all from what you say.

Re: shadow of seated man. Are you saying the shadow doesn't look right from the "correctness" standpoint, or , are you saying the shadow shape looks weird and awkward? Reason I ask is, am willing to sacrifice "correctness" to some extent for better composition,aesthetics,effect.

[CharM]

Hi Kiran... I was hoping you'd get a few more comments... I'm really not qualified to offer suggestions in landscapes or streetscapes (mine are appalling)...

The shadow you've drawn for the seated man looks at though there's another figure behind him. It is not reading as a shadow.

The figure who's painting could be moved back a little to connect with an elongated shadow from the seated man. Oh and your artist and his easel also need shadows.

The drain pipe isn't necessary, but I did find it interesting. The perspective on your sketch at this point isn't giving me an indication of that corner. Is the painter working on the front or side of the building?

[samben84]

Char, I'm thinking that there are only two people in the painting. The seated man who is leaning against the building and the painter on the ladder, who is painting a mural on the building, which is the side of the building and the background and the woman painting. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

[CharM]

Looking at this with fresh eyes after you comments, Sandy, I believe you're 100% correct... And that explains the seated man's shadow!

[Deborah Secor]

I like the premise here! Why not use a texture, such as large concrete panels, or some cracks in the wall? Or a fire hydrant or street sign and the shadows cast by them. That would flatten the wall plane even more. Check out these pics of outdoor murals that might inspire you. You'll see several with people in front of the wall if you keep going down. I'll keep my eye on this as you proceed! Have fun.

[CharM]

Kiran... I owe you an apology... Had I carefully read your opening paragraph, I would have better understood your composition. And the premise is brilliant.

The seated man's shadow still doesn't seem to read correctly for me... even though I now know it's up against the wall. Perhaps it's the shape. Since the man's arm is resting on his knee, perhaps the shadow should not have a space between the arm and knee...

Oh my gosh, Deborah! What a fabulous link... your suggestion to add texture to the wall will help...

[Cyntada]

I get it now! Didn't understand entirely until you posted the latest workup.

Before, it looked like a scene depicting one guy on a ladder, another actual person around the side doing plein-aire, and you, the unseen third painter showing us the scene. Now I can see, it's a painting of a painting of a painting! What helps it "read" for me is the not-quite painted "side" of the building (clarifies where the mural is) and the dropcloth curling up against the wall. Love the guy hanging out while his buddy does all the work. Can't wait to see the painted version!

[pjartwc]

Love the second one - good composition. Only, what is the guy sitting doing? Is he taking a coffee break, reading a book, giving orders-suggestions? He should be dong something. It seems as if he's looking up - but at what and why?

[kirants]

Hi Char, no worries. If it confuses you, it is both good and bad I guess The result is to confused viewer to some extent at first sight, and then unravel. But ultimately, it depends on the execution. I know execution is my weakest point, being relatively new to watercolors, but that shouldn't stop me from attempting it I'll take another look at the shadows shapes. Am gonna cut out a man figure in paper, lean it against a surface , throw some light and observe shadows shapes and go from there.

Sandy, you are right. 2 real painters + 1 within the mural.

Thanks Deborah, good ideas on using texture, although my capabilities at present will be the problem. But I'll give it a try. And thanks a lot for that link, certainly inspiring.

Thanks CK, yes! A painting of a painting of a painting. I think I need to do it all to enhance the fact that it is mural. Will play some more and see where I can take it.

Hi Jan, thanks much! The guy sitting, is taking a break. I have him holding a cigarette, but that might not be obvious in the rough sketch now, but that is the intention.

Thanks all for the inputs. I have no idea how I can pull this off with my limited capabilities, so apologize in advance for that. But I really need to give this a try, to challenge myself.

[pa-paw]

I like what you are doing here, Karin. I'm not all that great of a fan of the same ole/same ole stuff.Making the viewer's eyes and mind work is a good thing in my opinion.