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Old 03-16-2011, 08:17 PM
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skopas skopas is offline
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

wow, interesting facts and ideas that have come up. Well, as for me I'm going to sub OMS for turps, cause the smell is just to much and don't want to jeopardize my health over a medium use. I read somewhere that in the past say perhaps a hundred years or so, the turps that was used by them wasn't as toxic as ours is.. can anyone justify this??? something about the distilling process...dont know
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:39 PM
lovin art lovin art is offline
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

Quote:
Originally Posted by skopas
Well, as for me I'm going to sub OMS for turps, cause the smell is just to much and don't want to jeopardize my health over a medium use.

Well its better to be better informed then not , but what I don't get is , you do realize its just as harmful , and you still need good ventilation , I know you said that in your last posting but , Im concerned your not getting the ramifications that this stuff is just as toxic you just cant smell it when using it, thats all ..
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Old 03-16-2011, 09:40 PM
sidbledsoe sidbledsoe is offline
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

If I am outside and it is a good breeze, I can take turpentine, but if I am inside, it is winter, freezing outside, I even have a problem with OMS. I am just very sensitive to headaches it seems. So they say just use it with adequate ventilation, I don't want to spring for a paint spray booth setup or for installing a powerful vent fan where I want to paint. So I opt for not even using them but if I could, I certainly would because it is great for both thinning and cleaning.
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:15 AM
murphe murphe is offline
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovin art
Well its better to be better informed then not , but what I don't get is , you do realize its just as harmful , and you still need good ventilation , I know you said that in your last posting but , Im concerned your not getting the ramifications that this stuff is just as toxic you just cant smell it when using it, thats all ..

OMS is not just as toxic as turpentine. There is less of a smell because they usually remove more of the aromatic compounds so there is less vapour (given equal work times/amounts) because it isn't as volatile. This also means it isn't quite as flammable. It will also have less of an effect on your CNS so you won't usually feel as dizzy.

Even the cheaper OMS rated at 200ppm on the previous posters link compared to 100ppm for turpentine will let you work twice as long, all other things being equal, compared to turpentine before you're exposed to the same danger. (Even then you may not be exposed to some of the dangers of working with turpentine as the removal of the aromatic compounds may make it less dangerous and/or carcinogenic full stop.)
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Old 03-17-2011, 08:01 AM
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Ron Francis Ron Francis is online now
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

Sandra,
I would never say that OMS is safe and the more ventilation the better, but my comment on the previous page was aimed at you.
Quote:
As you are living in AUS, I would recommend Langridge odourless solvent.
It is rated at 1000 ppm, 10 times safer than turpentine.
The rates I quoted are from the OHS (Occupational Health & Safety) standard and they are the recommended maximum solvent content in the air before it is considered hazardous.
So, it is considered hazardous when there is 100 ppm (parts per million) of turpentine in the air compared to 1000 ppm of Landgridge OMS.

Murphe, thank you.
Regarding solvent flash points:
Landgridge OMS 100 degrees
Turpentine 90 degrees
General OMS 125 degrees
Mineral Spirits 104 degrees
So you are correct, turpentine is more flammable than the others.
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Last edited by Ron Francis : 03-17-2011 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 03-17-2011, 08:19 AM
lovin art lovin art is offline
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

Oh Ron , Im so sorry I didnt see your posting on my last reply , just seeing it now , I was confused still am I think but your saying this has helped too as well as Sid posting , I never thought of it being called totally different but it makes sense for sure .... Thanks to both you Ron and Sid for the right info on this and I will try the one you recommended Ron for sure , I normaly buy mine from Bunnings , the odourless one not sure the brand





Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Francis
Sandra,
This also confused me for quite a while, and for good reason.

What we in Australia call 'turpentine' (turps) is called 'mineral spirits' in the US. It is also called 'white spirit''.
We also call it 'mineral turpentine' here and that is what it should have on the label.
It is a petroleum distillate and OMS is a further distillation of it.

What we buy at art supplies is called 'gum turpentine' and in the US it is simply called 'turpentine'. As already stated above, it comes from pine trees.

I don't know what turbenoid is, but according to my information it is not mineral spirits, is not a true solvent and does not evaporate fully.

Just a bit about safety.
Permissable Exposure Level (PEL) is measured in parts per million.
The higher the number the safer the product.
From the information I have in front of me:

Distilled Turpentine (gum turpentine) 100 ppm
OMS (general) 200 ppm
Mineral Spirits (mineral turpentine) 120 - 200 ppm
Turpenoid (not available)
D-limonine 30 ppm (suspected of being harmful to kidney and liver)

As you are living in AUS, I would recommend Langridge odourless solvent.
It is rated at 1000 ppm, 10 times safer than turpentine.
I suspect that Gamsol has numbers something like that but I haven't seen the data.

Personally, I use OMS in my medium and mineral spirits to clean brushes.
(There is a lot more evaporation from the surface of the canvas because of the large surface area.)
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Old 03-17-2011, 11:45 AM
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

Well guys, Im sitting here this morning with a cup of coffee and waffle with butter all over the place.. My headache is gone and so is the throat irritation that I had yesterday after using Turps. That was with the window full blown open. I've been using OMS(gamsol) for about 2 yrs and never had any problems with it. Turps sure is a silent killer and hard to believe it comes from pine trees....yikes! I think it's just best to paint them and not include them with the painting process. THat stuff has be used out in the middle of the ocean where the breeze is rocking back n forth. I actually thought of maybe putting in a air filtering system......$$$$$.........but...nah, I can do without....:} Oil paint is expensive enough.
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Old 03-17-2011, 12:38 PM
sidbledsoe sidbledsoe is offline
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

Quote:
Originally Posted by skopas
Turps sure is a silent killer and hard to believe it comes from pine trees....yikes!
There is actually a good biological reason why many trees harbor these nasty chemicals in their vulnerable exposed exteriors. Citrus peels contain similar compounds that perform the same function.
When an insect comes along and decides to take a bite out that delicious looking pine needle or orange fruit, it receives a good mouthful of these naturally made (and biodegradable) horrific tasting juices and in the interest of remaining healthy, dines elsewhere.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:00 AM
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

OMG....okay, just answer this folks. I am going to paint again with oils and the smell of linseed oil medium makes my wife sick...so what does everyone recommend? Some say Walnut oil and I've also heard Poppy oil. I just want to paint. Thanks all.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:32 AM
DaveGhmn DaveGhmn is offline
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

Yes, and possibly safflower oil. I learned my lesson with walnut -- some of the supermarket walnut oils are either bogus or somehow altered to become non-drying. Spectrum in the natural foods aisle or store seems to get good reviews, as does expensive "artist-grade" walnut oil.

Have you found a completely linseed-free paint line? I think there is one... somebody else here will know.

If you wife is reacting to Liquin, that's actually an alkyd with some brutal hydrocarbon solvents.
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:00 PM
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveoreno
OMG....okay, just answer this folks. I am going to paint again with oils and the smell of linseed oil medium makes my wife sick...so what does everyone recommend? Some say Walnut oil and I've also heard Poppy oil. I just want to paint. Thanks all.

If the linseed oil in the paint itself is troublesome, there are some paint makers that use a binder other than linseed oil. M. Graham uses walnut oil as a binder, and Sennelier uses safflower oil. There are probably some other alternatives as well.

As far as mediums go, yes, you can use walnut oil or poppy. M. Graham sells a Wlanut oil and I'm sure you can find other various oils from many manufacturers.

And if the paint is thin enough for you out of the tube, you don't need to add any medium.

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Old 04-12-2012, 01:18 PM
bjr001 bjr001 is offline
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

This discussion as most regarding solvents in oil painting is turning a dangerous corner. PPM is a unit of measure of the PEL set by OSHA for a commercial environment in an 8 hour work period. People are throwing around PPM counts as some sort of measure of safety, they are not. If you notice a slight buzz after you stop painting after a few hours you are very likely exceeding whatever PPM count for whatever solvent you are using. Read the warning info on the solvent container.

What is the PPM count of the corner of your world where you are painting for the solvent you are using? How would you know? How would you measure it? Don’t lull yourself and others into a false sense of security because this stuff versus the other stuff has a lower PPM count. Read the warning label. Gamblin loves to promote in their propaganda how their stuff is so much safer than turps yet the warnings are practically the same for both. If you suffer great discomfort when using any solvent you very probably are sensitive or even allergic to the solvent; best to stay away from that particular product. Why do you have an open container of solvent when you paint? Why and how do you add solvent to your mediums?
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:19 PM
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

Quote:
Spectrum in the natural foods aisle or store seems to get good reviews

I was wondering about that! I have a health food store and can order Spectrum's oil.

Even being sensitive to smells, I have no problem using Grumbacher Odorless Thinner and Linseed Oil for medium (50/50), but I keep just a little in a jar that I close the lid on when I'm not actively dipping in it.

I also use Weber Turpenoid Natural for cleanup, it seems very gentle. But again, none of these containers are open except when in use.

Seems I get a little sleepy after a couple of hours... wonder if it's the fumes from the paints themselves? The smell is so discreet that I sometimes forget to open the window!
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:04 PM
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

> am going to paint again with oils and the smell of linseed oil medium makes my wife sick...so what does everyone recommend


the wife comes first; paint outside and hang the painting in the
garage/attic/wherever to dry
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:10 PM
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjr001
Gamblin loves to promote in their propaganda how their stuff is so much safer than turps yet the warnings are practically the same for both.

In my experience in researching the topic of solvents (turpentine, mineral spirits and odorless mineral spirits (OMS), the general consensus seems to be that Gum Turpentine is the most hazardous of these solvents, Mineral Spirits the next safest and OMS the safest. This information has been around now for many years and has nothing in particular to do with Gamblin, aside from the fact that Gamblin makes an OMS.

Even though OMS is considered the safest, all of these products contain health warnings and need to be used properly - especially with proper ventilation.

The folks at AMIEN say the following in one of their threads discussing solvents:

Quote:
Gum turpentine is so hazardous a solvent we can't recommend its use.


Here is some information from the Chicago Artists Resource page:

Quote:
Turpentine and Substitutes

By Michael McCann, Ph.D., C.I.H.

Turpentine is the classic solvent used by artists in oil painting and for clean-up. There are two basic types of turpentine: gum turpentine, distilled from the sap of pine trees; and wood turpentine, distilled from the pine wood. While wood turpentine is more hazardous than gum turpentine, both types are highly toxic by inhalation and skin absorption. Acute health effects include eye, nose, and throat irritation, narcosis (headaches, dizziness, nausea, confusion, rapid pulse), and at high levels, difficulty in breathing, kidney and bladder damage, convulsions, and possibly death. Chronic health effects include skin irritation and allergies, kidney and bladder damage, and nervous system damage.

I have seen many cases of allergic reactions and several cases of severe kidney damage in artists using turpentine. As a result, I recommend substituting safer solvents for turpentine.

The general turpentine substitute is mineral spirits (paint thinner, turpenoid, Varsol, Stoddard Solvent). Standard mineral spirits can contain about 15-20% aromatic hydrocarbons, giving mineral spirits their distinctive odor. The aromatic hydrocarbons are also the most toxic component. Acute health effects include eye, nose and throat irritation, and at high levels, dizziness, lightheadness, nausea, etc. Chronic health effects include skin irritation (but not allergies), and brain damage from long-term exposure to large amounts. Mineral spirits are not absorbed through the skin. In general, mineral spirits are less toxic than turpentine.

An even safer substitute are odorless (or deodorized) mineral spirits or paint thinner. The more toxic aromatic hydrocarbons have been reduced or removed, hence the milder odor. Since turpentine evaporates more quickly than mineral spirits, hazardous, high concentrations are achieved more quickly with turpentine than with mineral spirits. Turpentine is also more flammable than mineral spirits. Turpentine has a flash point of 95 F, meaning that enough vapors can form at this temperature to catch fire if a source of ignition is present. Mineral spirits, on the other hand, have a flash point over 100 F.

In conclusion, mineral spirits (especially the odorless type) are preferred over turpentine because of lower toxicity, lower volatility, and lower flammability.

Art Hazard News, Volume 11, No. 9, 1988


The bold face type was added by me, to emphasize the conclusions and the reason that OMS is safer than MS.

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