Cement as a sculpture medium.

[jynja]

Eva,

My shoulder is doing fine. I don't have the strength and youth I used to, but force myself to ignore that as much as possible. My theory on the calcium deposits is, not enough water in my diet for 50 years. I,too, have had a finger that locks up on me. In talking to an older client, she describes that as arthritis in her case. I wake up and have to pry my finger open sometimes. Its a pain, but doesn't sound as painful as yours.

I love the link you just posted. I saw some wire at that freight place that was bent in interesting flower shapes. I wondered what that was for and if not for that use, could be used for building domes. Hmmmm <down Girl!!>

Carol, The chair idea sounds really interesting. Keep me posted.

Jyn

[astheCrowflies]

Hi, Jyn and Carol,

Since you both have quite a bit of armature building experience, I thought I'd ask for your suggestions/advice on how to make an armature to get the spirally effect of the blue roof on this site (which has been posted before in this thread):

http://www.geocities.com/flyingconcrete/Garden/g08.htm

I'd like to make a large garden lantern with a spirally top later this summer. Do you think I'd need to make a spiral of hardware cloth attached to the rest of the armature? Any other ideas? I'm trying to figure out how to do this.

Thanks,
Eva

[astheCrowflies]

Jyn, I wonder if you haven't had trigger finger, too, since you've had a locking problem in one of your fingers. From what I've read about the condition, the amount of pain varies from individual to individual. And it does resolve by itself in some cases. Glad your shoulder is doing better.

You could always make a small, domed gazebo for your yard.

Eva

[carolart]

Eva - Nice spiral top there. Hmmm... Have you tried to sculpt it in sand and make a sand casting. Then all you would need is a piece of wire mesh flat across the bottom (spirals dug into sand). Then, as it sets up you could add a male/female type piece so that it could safely sit on your totem. Since your totem is probably not that wide in diameter, bet the sand sculpting would be pretty easy to handle. Or.... just put a piece of wire mesh down on your worksurface (circle of mesh again about the size of the spiral) and start making the spiral (slap it on). Let the mesh reinforce the whole piece...dont try to build the spirals into the mesh. If your mix is sculptable, it should be easy to do. Make most of the piece with the first batch of mix. Then wait for it to set up, and put on the finishing touches. Next day, turn it over and patch in any mesh that shows and build in the proper male/female thing that will allow it to sit firmly on your totem.

Thats my 2 cents here. I am not much into super reinforcing or anything like that. My pieces really have minimum reinforcement. I really think the concrete is strong stuff. The reinforcement, in my opinion however flawed it may be, is really to keep the piece from totally breaking apart if it is dropped. Or it keeps the piece from falling apart if it cracks. You can always patch a crack where mesh or armature is still holding the pieces together. But broken pieces are sometimes harder to keep together no matter how you reglue it.

Glad to see you are really getting into planning a project. I am sure it will be beautiful no matter how you build it. Just think if you sand cast it how exciting it would be to pull it out of the sand!

Jyn - glad you like grouting. I think I just hate cleaning stuff. The rocks had to be wiped off so many times because they accepted the grout way too well. I later found out that you can paint the stuff you dont want to later clean grout off of (like porous stuff (rocks) with resist like you use in watercolor painting. Grouting was just messy and too much like cleaning a bathroom.

Carol

[Scottyboy]

This is a very interesting thread..I've learned a lot about this medium just reading your posts. That spiral is very cool. I imagine that cement would be quite difficult to use, and would require a whole different setup from what I'd be used to.

[jynja]

Eva,

Here is my two cents, and I may add I might try this myself! I like Carols idea and that was my first thought as well. However, I took it to the next level because she already suggested that one.

How about if you got some steel mesh used for window screens and folded it like you would a paper fan. You know like we used to when we were kids. You would have to make about 4 of them because the spread of the fan is about 1/4 circle. Hook that onto flat chicken wire or hardware mesh. Cut the tips into points if you want it to look like a star. Fill with your favorite filling (my preferance now is spray foam). Then just slap some concrete on it! LOL

Jyn

[jynja]

Hello Scottyboy! Welcome to this discussion! Hope you get hooked and stay awhile. http://www.roadsideamerica.com/exhibit/dementia.html

Jyn

[jynja]

Eva,

I don't think it would take alot of wiring to get the effect. Oh yea and spiral them around. Just a little pinch of the wires here and there with needle nose pliers would keep it in place. Plus, depending upon how deep the folds are, you might not even need filling. Just a final layer on top and bottom to make it smooth.

I rebuilt the heads today. The others were to small, but thats good because now I can keep a couple for myself. I bought 6 inch diameter forms and one 36 diameter form (man was that expensive) for the base. Now to figure out how to get the cement into a 6 ft. form without dumping it from the roof.

Jyn

[jynja]

Eva,

Okay let me see if I can describe this after going back and looking at that spiral again. Take some chicken wire and fold it like a fan. Roll the one end tight and bend a few of the wires so it is attached to itself. Fan out the folds, which would normally give you 1/4 of a circle at the tip of the fan. However if you were to snip the bottom of the folds about half way towards the rolled end, you could then fan them out further.

Sooo what I would do is build the armature and put it on a plastic bag. Dump cement on it, smooth it. Dry. Next day coat it one more time. Call it done. I may just give it a whirl (no pun intended) tomorrow morning just to see if it works since I am at a stopping point.

Jyn

[jynja]

Okay tried the chicken wire Eva. Took me about 10 minutes to get it to that point. Chicken wire is tedious to work with cause you have to bend in all the little snips, which I don't mind doing, where as sand would probably be alot faster. However, I will "slap some mix on it" tomorrow just to make sure I am wrong. LOL

Jyn

[jynja]

Another way it is possible to do depending upon the size would be to paper crete or material crete a star and just keep adding on till you get the voids filled. So it just depends if ya want to make an inny or an outy.

Jyn

[astheCrowflies]

Hi, Everyone,

Scottyboy -- Hello! And welcome to the thread. You've got to try this stuff. It's really not that difficult to do. Just buy a bag of Portland cement and some sand, and then Jyn, Carol, Diann, and others here will give you all the help you need to get started. I'm still learning, and they've been a tremendous help, motivation, and inspiration to me.

Jyn and Carol -- How cool that you've both taken a look at that spiral roof and given me your great ideas on how to convert that look into a lantern lid! I really appreciate it!

Carol -- I think sand casting a spiral lid is a definite possibility, but I'm not very good yet at making deep distinctive shapes in the sand. I made this "swirly" totem bead by forming the sand mold around a neat jello mold:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...53256964OVMPdn
I wonder if strips of aluminum flashing or a thinner metal couldn't be folded over into spirally shapes and then imprinted in the sand to get this effect? I know, I know, you should be able to free form sculpt these shapes in the sand. Maybe one of these days. But, Carol, if you decide to try it, please, please take me along with you as you do it!

Very funny, Carol!

Grouting was just messy and too much like cleaning a bathroom.

Jyn -- That's exactly what I was thinking: to make spiral shapes out of hardware cloth or chicken wire attached to the rest of the armature. But making fan folds for me is not an easy thing. Years ago, a friend and I did some cross country driving trips, and I was the navigator responsible for maintaining the maps. But I never could get the maps folded back properly. My friend would say, "Eva, it's just a simple fan fold". And I would tell her that unfortunately I wasn't any better with fans than I was maps. Well, this is way off topic, but thanks for the side trip down memory lane.

And I really like your fan fold idea, Jyn. I have some gutter guard that I got at Home Depot. Diann said that those concrete artists working on the reef project use gutter guard as the armature for the finer details of a sculpture. It's much easier on the hands than hardware cloth or chicken wire. Is your chicken wire spiral only one piece of wire? I would love to see what you do with this, Jyn!

Gutter guard picture:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...53257055tQysft

So, Jyn, will you make a smaller giraffe and bear for your own sculpture garden? Wonderful!

Eva

[astheCrowflies]

Update: I just folded a strip of gutter guard, and it broke in half. So I guess chicken wire, hardware cloth, or window screen is a better choice. Gutter guard seems so flexible that I'm surprised, but I tried a few pieces and they all split down the fold. Oh, well...

Eva

[carolart]

Welcome Scottyboy...and everyone else too. Concrete is fun, plus its pretty cheap, so mistakes dont cost much.

Eva - If the gutter guard is breaking...just crush it up in long lengths to make the spirals. Maybe that will work for you. BTW...if I could sit with you and help you thru the first steps, I gladly would. Maybe just pretend I am there...and Jyn too. We would be saying - just throw the mix on - go for it - what the heck - it was supposed to do that. Remember, dont tell anyone about what it was suppose to look like and no one will know.

Carol

[astheCrowflies]

Hi, Everyone,

On Pages 8 and 9 of this thread, Yielding explained how he used cardboard to make a curvy armature. I'm thinking this technique or something similar might also work for the spirals on a lantern lid. What I'm learning from you, Carol and Jyn, is that there are many ways to get an idea to work. Thanks for that!

Carol, I know. I need to just give it a try. My doctor wants me to take it easy with my thumb for a little while longer, so I'm chomping at the bit eager to do some stuff. But it would be fun to play in the mud and sand with you and Jyn!

Eva