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Old 07-19-2010, 03:59 AM
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Bobar57 Bobar57 is offline
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Question Binder clips or masking tape to stretch paper

I will be using gatorboard as my watercolor boards.I have looked into all the possible ways of stretching the paper.
I find the gummed tape too messy difficult some times and it leaves a piece of it on the finished work,a thing I'm not fond of it.As for staples,I know that gatorboard takes all the abuse,but I don't adapt to the idea,I want the boards to last forever and look clean too,without staples holes.
My remaining choices are masking tape or 2" binder clips.I don't know if the masking tape will hold the pressure of the paper stretching as it dries or it will become lose and binder clips I find them strong but I'm worried about the buckling while painting.
My technique won't require large wet in wet washes,if they do will be in small areas at a time.I will be doing portraiture without much background,just some small washes here and there to convey the sense of it and give some mood and atmosphere to the portrait.
What is your opinion?Should I wet the paper and stretch it with masking tape? Or should I do it with the binder clips?
Or should I just work on the paper without stretching it first?
I will be working mainly in 1/4 and rarely on 1/2 sheets of 140 lbs Cold Pressed paper.
Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Bob
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Old 07-19-2010, 06:26 AM
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Roun2it Roun2it is offline
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Re: Binder clips or masking tape to stretch paper

Bob for the last few weeks/ months I have seen and responded to many of your posts about "Starting to Paint".......... I'm sure you could now write your own book about preparation to paint from the info you have gained ..............

But, ..... I think the time has come ............ it is time to paint!!!! .......... if you ask a hundred artists what is their favourite paint, brush, paper, easel, board or palette you will get a hundred different answers. It is now time for you to experience for yourself try out what you are suggesting above then work out what works for you ....... I can only give you what works for me, but I learned it from my experience of painting ......... please Bob just get the brushes wet paint something then come back and show us what you have done ..........

I'll give you an example of the confusion that may be caused by asking for knowledge and failing to try yourself ....... your question above about masking tape ........ Should I wet the paper and stretch it with masking tape? if you had tried it you would know that you cannot stick wet paper down to anything using masking tape ......... Masking tape only sticks to dry paper.

Take the plunge get your brushes wet, your paints mixed and those pristine boards covered in paper or splashed with paint full of holes and bits of tape ......... that's what painting is about ............ then come back and ask what you don't understand from your efforts .............. otherwise it is all just theory ......... and you could theorise what is best forever without ever getting a paint brush wet.

Please don't take offense at this, I do not mean to offend, I am trying in my own probably clumsy way to encourage you to get started and paint. To me it is probably the best advise anyone can give you,......... Get out there and paint all the answers will fall into place then. We can all be great theorists but painting comes from experience.

Try using staples to hold down wet paper ....... what do you think?

Try masking tape to hold down wet paper ......... what do you think?

Try bulldog clips to hold down paper .......... what do you think?

Try wooden boards ....... what do you think?

Try gatorboard........ what do you think?

Bob, you have the information but only you can answer those questions ..........

Bob, yes you have completed some research and I agree that that is also needed to help us grow and gain knowledge, but that is all it is ...... knowledge ....... I am convinced that you will find your own answers to all these questions by just doing. When you have done then ask yourself all these questions and that valuable experience gained from doing will show you the true value of painting in watercolour.

It is time to enjoy the journey ............ go and paint .........
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Last edited by Roun2it : 07-19-2010 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 07-19-2010, 07:25 AM
Neeman Neeman is offline
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Re: Binder clips or masking tape to stretch paper

Bob,

As Kev said so succinctly and wisely......


There was a delightful gentleman here on this site,
his advice was "Paint like a Millionaire"
You have invested greatly, now is the time to spend freely
Burn thru the stuff!


All there is left for you to do is;
Practice
Practice
Practice


Good Luck

Last edited by Neeman : 07-19-2010 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 07-19-2010, 07:56 AM
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Re: Binder clips or masking tape to stretch paper

Amen to the above.

Bob, we are all keen to see you progress (and help where we can) so start and SHOW us where you are...
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:18 AM
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Re: Binder clips or masking tape to stretch paper

Bob,
I applaud your efforts to learn all you can about this new and wonderful medium you've chosen to start using. I like to read books and watch videos, etc., as well, BUT the big difference between us seems to be that I'm willing to actually throw some paint on a piece of watercolor paper and see what happens.

Don't worry about painting a picture right away, just play with your paints. See how they mingle when they are wet....see what happens when you paint one on top of another after the first one dries.

Check out the Monthly Classes and KIUAN Exercise and take the plunge...pick one out and give the lesson a try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained as the saying goes.

I think what all of us ^^^^ are saying is it is time for you to start painting.

Tear a sheet of paper into quarters and practice, practice, practice....you can use both sides of the paper, so you aren't really wasting too much when you do this. Explore your colors, try out something simple and just have some fun.



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Old 07-19-2010, 09:41 AM
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Re: Binder clips or masking tape to stretch paper

I don't stretch, I use 200lb Saunders Waterford rough paper which is like thin cardboard, however Arnold Lowery (see his YouTube videos) often uses thin 90lb paper clipped to the easel with two bulldog clips at the top.

Arnold paints very wet and simply moves the clips as the paper expands. If you are painting relatively wet on dry simply tape your dry paper to the Gatorboard with masking tape, it should hold. Any slight buckling will disappear as the paper dries.

Yes paint, you will gain much experience the more you paint.

Doug
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:49 AM
Neeman Neeman is offline
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Re: Binder clips or masking tape to stretch paper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorky
I don't stretch, I use 200lb Saunders Waterford rough paper which is like thin cardboard, however Arnold Lowery (see his YouTube videos) often uses thin 90lb paper clipped to the easel with two bulldog clips at the top.

Arnold paints very wet and simply moves the clips as the paper expands. If you are painting relatively wet on dry simply tape your dry paper to the Gatorboard with masking tape, it should hold. Any slight buckling will disappear as the paper dries.

Yes paint, you will gain much experience the more you paint.

Doug

Doug,
I also use 90 lbs paper with clips on an upright easel.
Also very wet, and also quite fast.

It is not a beginners way to paint!!!
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:31 AM
sashntash sashntash is offline
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Re: Binder clips or masking tape to stretch paper

I also use 200 lb Saunders Waterford paper - great paper !!!

I use masking tape to attach the dry paper to my board. It works well for me.

I never stretch/wet the paper beforehand....
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:44 AM
Neeman Neeman is offline
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Re: Binder clips or masking tape to stretch paper

Quote:
Originally Posted by sashntash
I also use 200 lb Saunders Waterford paper - great paper !!!

I use masking tape to attach the dry paper to my board. It works well for me.

I never stretch/wet the paper beforehand....

You use it for Acylics?
If you paint watercolors wet in wet, you might have a different opinion
If you stretched and stapled 140 lbs paper, you would not need 200 lbs
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:45 AM
Neeman Neeman is offline
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Re: Binder clips or masking tape to stretch paper

Bob,

It is clear from your mulitude of threads that you like to know things before you start.

I am going to suggest a Method book
Do not confuse method and techniques
And please do not start a thread on best books to buy!
Techniques you can get from reading threads this site.
Look at Doug's links.


Starting with Watercolours by Rowland Hilder gives method of how to start painting.
It is a very well though out book that has a clear beginning, middle and end, where it will help you

start you on your path.
Work thru the book.
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:47 AM
Ray72113 Ray72113 is offline
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Re: Binder clips or masking tape to stretch paper

Bob, I paint on 140 lb paper and never stretch it. I will use bull dog clips or more often use 2 or 3 pieces of looped blue painter's tape on the back of the paper to hold it on my support. Find a simple way that works for you. It doesn't have to conform to any rule as long as it works for you.
One of the beauties of doing art is that it's fun and relaxing and it doesn't require agonizing over.
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Old 07-19-2010, 12:12 PM
sashntash sashntash is offline
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Re: Binder clips or masking tape to stretch paper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neeman
You use it for Acylics?
If you paint watercolors wet in wet, you might have a different opinion
If you stretched and stapled 140 lbs paper, you would not need 200 lbs

I use the 200 lb Saunders Waterford paper for both "real" watercolors and also when I paint with fluid acrylics using watercolor techniques - from watching Arnold Lowrey's acrylics DVD and also that of Charles Harrington "Acrylics: The Watercolor Alternative."

But I do paint with "real" watercolor paints about 50% of the time.

I find that the 200 lb Saunders Waterford is my favorite paper for both.

I probably don't "need" the 200 lb paper, but I prefer it
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Old 07-19-2010, 01:10 PM
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Bobar57 Bobar57 is offline
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Post Re: Binder clips or masking tape to stretch paper

Thanks Yorky,Sylvia and specially Neeman for pointing to a book that might help.To the others ,all I can say is that I can see that this thread had generated an exchange of toughs between two or three members,with a remarkable indifference to the point that generated it.And to the others that don't like my questions, I say that every beginner has questions,many,and most of them before dipping a brush in paint.
But at the end my point is that I will avoid criticism without ever producing a single paint.I won't argue and this the end of it.No more posting.

Bob
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-Robert Wade

Last edited by Bobar57 : 07-19-2010 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 07-19-2010, 02:56 PM
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RogerPf RogerPf is offline
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Re: Binder clips or masking tape to stretch paper

Bob. We all want you to post. Post Paintings. Try stuff and show us. Art happens by repetition, interaction and thought.

I even tracked down your Facebook page (you menetioned you had one) but I saw no paintings there. For example you could post the practices that you said (somewhere earlier) you had done and throught that we can help you get to your destination. That is what this comunity is all about.

Looking forward to seeing your work (whenever it most suites you).
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Old 07-19-2010, 03:01 PM
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Roun2it Roun2it is offline
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Re: Binder clips or masking tape to stretch paper

Bob, I am sorry that you have decided to take offence about the reply I made to you above. It was never meant to offend but if you took it that way then I can only apologise.

You imply above that I replied with "indifference" to your question - I see it differently as I have already responded and answered this question in one of your other threads ...... I also answered that masking tape will not stretch paper as it will not stick to wet paper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roun2it
Bob ......... painting in the 'Charles Ried' style means you don't really need to do anything at all to stop your paper from cockling as Ried's method is to work in small areas and although he develops the areas wet in wet the areas are small enough not to effect the attributes of the paper.

So my advise would be to just use 4 dot's of 'Blu Tac' (Don't know the American equivalent) in the corners of the paper. That will hold the paper down on your gatorboard and allow you to use the whole of the paper and not lose the inch - inch and a half of the paper around the circumference to the staples or the tape.

I work mainly wet in wet and my preferred method is to stretch paper with brown tape. I have never used the reinforced stuff so can't say which would be better. I have used staples and have purchased special boards manufactured for stretching paper ......... but at the end of the day I have found that using tape is the way to go for me.

Don't forget though that is only when I work wet, when working dry I use the blu-tac method. As it is reusable there is no cost at all after the initial purchase of the Blu-tac. It is also cost effect as well as it allows the use of the whole piece of paper.

Try it before making any purchases, you may find that you work 'dry' enough not to need to secure the paper to the board in any other way.

I always try to take care to give good sound advise, especially to new members, I considered my answer to this question very carefully, I even looked at your posting history to make sure that I was giving the correct encouragement. You have posted 29 threads since Feb this year most asking questions like this one, but we have seen none showing the results of your or our endeavours. We give advise here freely to help and encourage you to paint and show your work.

It saddens me that you have taken my response above in a way that it was not intended, I have helped you with sound advise in some of the threads you have posted. I totally understand the need to ask questions .......... but no matter how many questions you ask or how many answers you gain you will never improve as a watercolour painter until you paint .......

It is your call, take my advise in the manner it is meant as encouragement for you to paint ......... or misread this and take offence at my having mentioned the need to paint ............
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Last edited by Roun2it : 07-19-2010 at 03:05 PM.
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