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Old 03-01-2010, 06:10 PM
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Don Berendsen Don Berendsen is offline
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Green Apatite Mixtures

Some of these mixtures are just gorgeous. Zoisite on it's own doesn't look very special but when mixed with Green Apatite the result is spectacular! The amethyst mixture is quite beautiful too!
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Old 03-01-2010, 06:15 PM
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Piemontite Mixtures

Piemontite doesn't look especially exciting on its own, and appear quite close to Mars Violet as can be seen in the example at the bottom/middle of the attachment. But I think there are some significant differences. It's darker in mass tone and cleaner and with more 'life' as it washes out. It makes some intriguing mixtures with nice textures. I especially like the Golden Barok Red (Old Holland) combination at the upper/middle.
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Old 03-01-2010, 06:22 PM
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Various mixtures

The Blue Apatite/Quin. Magenta in the upper left is spectacular and many of the others quite useful. Most have a pronounced texture.

In the upper left I've included samples of two non-Primatek paints I just got. Old Holland's Golden Barok Red is unique to them and is the only high-chroma reddish-orange that lifts readily. Next to it is W&N's Perylene Green which is a transparent staining green-black which I find very useful for modeling form in masses of trees or anywhere a dark green is needed.
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:18 PM
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Re: Daniel Smith PrimaTek Watercolors- Library

Don- these are just gorgeous mixtures! Thanks for posting these fabulous examples to inspire everyone!
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:43 PM
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Re: Daniel Smith PrimaTek Watercolors- Library

Great additions Don - thank you so much for sharing these!! Your landscape is beautiful - you achieved such depth - I especially like the foreground....
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Old 03-01-2010, 10:52 PM
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Re: Daniel Smith PrimaTek Watercolors- Library

Those *are* lovely colours Don... thanks for showing them!
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Old 03-01-2010, 11:17 PM
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Re: Daniel Smith PrimaTek Watercolors- Library

Thanks Mary Lou and Esther!

And thanks Linda, I hope some of the artists find them even half as useful as I did your original post.


***

BTW, Handprint has a very thorough summary and review of the Primatek paints:

http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/primatek.html

Cheers,

Don
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Last edited by Don Berendsen : 03-01-2010 at 11:39 PM. Reason: Came to my senses...
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Old 03-02-2010, 02:28 PM
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Re: Daniel Smith PrimaTek Watercolors- Library

Don- forgot to say your landscape is spectacular! What gorgeous greens! And thanks for the link to handprint- I read that site several years ago when I was starting, and wrote the author a note, he sent back saying he had settled on a brand so did not experiment anymore - or that is my memory of what he said...but obviously he has added new info on new paints now!
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Old 03-02-2010, 03:42 PM
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Re: Daniel Smith PrimaTek Watercolors- Library

For those wondering,
Blood stone is a form of hematite.
Hematite is quite red, especially in tints...your iron oxide clays such as Ercolano red, pozzouli red, Venetian red and many others are composed of hematite with other minerals.
The green blood stone jasper is a different mineral. There is also a black form of hematite...not to mention the violet form.

http://naturalpigments.com/detail.as...UCT_ID=450-31S
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Old 03-02-2010, 05:32 PM
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Re: Daniel Smith PrimaTek Watercolors- Library

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarvestMoon
Don- forgot to say your landscape is spectacular! What gorgeous greens! And thanks for the link to handprint-

Thanks for the kind words Linda. It's really encouraging when a painting works out like this one did after so many awful messes. I had been working with my usual paints and had just received the Primateks. I did a bunch of experiments with them and found some mixtures with useful colours and textures. This is the first painting I tried and was very pleasantly surprised.

BTW, I don't agree with everything that the Handprint site says about the paints. I certainly didn't have any problem getting nice even washes and am quite certain that some of the more interesting textures can't be easily duplicated. Years ago I did a lot of experimenting with textures, granulation, etc. and I don't recall ever getting anything like the Green Apatite/Zoisite or Blue Apatite/Q. Magenta and some others.

Cheers,

Don

Cheers,

Don
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Last edited by Don Berendsen : 03-02-2010 at 05:40 PM. Reason: fit of madness
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Old 03-02-2010, 07:27 PM
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Re: Daniel Smith PrimaTek Watercolors- Library

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcollege
The green blood stone jasper is a different mineral.

Thanks! It is the green jasper with little red dots that I am used to seeing called hematite.

The hematite I see that is used in jewelry is steel grey, very metallic in color. It is a main ore of iron. But yes, it can sometimes be reddish and that is what they call bloodstone.

A lot of times a red color in iron minerals comes from literally rust from iron...eg. 'sedona red' is sandstone with iron in it

Don- the handprint article was an interesting read! Bruce is certainly opinionated, and has a lot of good information there. But it is one person's opinion, and always best to try things out for yourself!
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:06 PM
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Re: Daniel Smith PrimaTek Watercolors- Library

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarvestMoon
Don- the handprint article was an interesting read! Bruce is certainly opinionated, and has a lot of good information there. But it is one person's opinion, and always best to try things out for yourself!

Another factor may be his painting style, the paints may not suit it as well as someone elses.

Also with paints like these it may be difficult to get a smooth wash with a very heavy pigment load on the brush when trying to get a dark value. One can just do an underpainting to establish the value then do a more liquid wash and avoid the problem he describes.

Cheers,

Don
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:57 AM
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Re: Daniel Smith PrimaTek Watercolors- Library

Don- Bruce is dead right about the grey gunk in the lapis lazuli....(true lapis lazuli has pyrite in it, that is pretty in the mineral, but needs to be out for paint pigment). There is a process called 'heavy mineral separation' that can separate out heavy particles...and they should have done this in making the lapis and obviously did not. But when I was a geology undergrad I had the 'job' of grinding up rocks and doing the heavy mineral separation for a professors project. The impurities and pyrite would be cleared out.

I do like the heavy pigment load in some of these because it can granulate easily on it's own without pigment!
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Old 03-03-2010, 11:10 AM
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Re: Daniel Smith PrimaTek Watercolors- Library

Bruce from handprint may not be familliar with the ochres or hematites- the tinting strength of these minerals are very strong- especially hematite.

Harvestmoon- I would like to send you some of the paints I made- These are historical pigments and natural from mines and quarries. I would be curious in your opinion of them and how they handle. PM me if you are interested. Actually if anyone is interested in some of these paints PM me.
Here's a link to a painting I did using only pigments from the earth
http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=501290


I have always resisted saying anything about Primatek paints- and with what I say below does not mean these paints are not great paints capable of great results- color is more important than composition so as long as it is permanent- I have dealt with making my own paints from pigment for over 3 yrs. now- I have also crushed my own pigments-and with this experience-
I do wonder about some of the primatek pigments and the possibility of enhancements. I have ground my own pigments- including lapis lazuli with great results...but Amethyst is a crystaline structure transluscent in nature. The more you grind it the more transparent it becomes...just as smalt...grinding finely leads to less color. Malachite, azurite and garnet will do the same. Amethyst is also not lightfast as it will bleach in sunlight after time. I have amethyst powder/ pigments...The are nearly as clear as glass. These Crystals have been available for centuries- though not used- amethyst being one- I still suspect enhancements with different pigments -this is done with pigments known as mixed earths.

BTW frangelico lapis lazuli is done using a caustic paste of kneeading to separate the pure color from the other minerals...and the genuine ultramarine done this way goes up to $210.00 for ten grams from Kremer pigments. Lapis that is a grey blue is called ultramarine ash.
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Last edited by rcollege : 03-03-2010 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 03-03-2010, 03:52 PM
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Re: Daniel Smith PrimaTek Watercolors- Library

Roger- that is quite a generous offer- you will likely be flooded with requests!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcollege
but Amethyst is a crystaline structure transluscent in nature. The more you grind it the more transparent it becomes...just as smalt...grinding finely leads to less color. Malachite, azurite and garnet will do the same. Amethyst is also not lightfast as it will bleach in sunlight after time. I have amethyst powder/ pigments...The are nearly as clear as glass. These Crystals have been available for centuries- though not used- amethyst being one-

I have wondered a lot about their 'pigments' too! And even sent them emails about some of them!

I have seen a lot of rhodonite minerals, but never anything the color of their paint! It is typically a much more earthy pink, not retina-burning hot (opera) pink!

Amethyst was a big question for me- it is pure quarts with a bit of manganese or aluminum/ iron impuritys (depends on who you ask) that makes it purple...some of it is quite dark purple in crystalline structure. It has a hardness of 7 and is not soluble at all. But their paint is gorgeous! (wonder if they plan to use rose quarts for light pink?

Gem-quality malachite is a gorgeous green, but it is the thin black stripes that make it really beautiful and banded...less nice quality is a light green with almost no banding...but the black again should be removed or it just would make a dirty looking color. I don't think the DS malachite or lapis lives up to the potential they have.....

Still, the serpentine and earth colors like pipestone are so unique and gorgeous, I am really happy to see them experimenting with the natural pigments. I would love to have a tour of their paint factory!
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Last edited by HarvestMoon : 03-04-2010 at 10:05 AM.
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