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Old 10-16-2009, 09:37 AM
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willpaintforever willpaintforever is offline
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oil on masonite -question?

I have been painting oils/glazing on masonite for 33 years and love the fine details that this smooth surface allows.

I have always bought in bulk/prepared various sized boards,and this meant that something was always on hand when inspiration struck.

This year I have finally run out of my supply and my framer has suggested strongly that I do not use new masonite as it contains glues etc due to waterproofing, that will leach into my paintings in the future.

I now need to move with the times and find a new board to use.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

I have so many painings waiting to be painted...

My pattern is that I always have three paintings on the go at the same time
  • copy of old master
  • something photo realastic
  • a 'free' painting (often surreal)
I really hope I get some responses to this as it it so important to me.
Attached my copy of Holbein's Sir Thomas Moore

thanks guys
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Old 10-16-2009, 12:53 PM
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DaveMak DaveMak is offline
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Re: oil on masonite -question?

I have paintings my grandmother painted on masonite over a half century ago still in excellent shape. If you use untempered masonite you should have no problems.

Here's an interesting discussion on painting on masonite:

http://forum.portraitartist.com/printthread.php?t=6140
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:20 AM
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willpaintforever willpaintforever is offline
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Re: oil on masonite -question?

Thankyou Dave

I have looked at the link you posted and it contains much food for thought

cheers
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Old 10-17-2009, 08:58 AM
Steve Orin Steve Orin is offline
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Re: oil on masonite -question?

Decades ago there was a version of the panel made by pressing & steaming with few binders but so far as I know its no more. These days it all has heavy duty binders of all sorts. Some are no trubbs but some can eat thru your priming layer in time. Problem is, you can't know without testing for a long, long time. You have to put your best foot forward & hope. In that vein a few suggestions:
The harder, denser panels are likely to hold up to abuse longer but also have higher percentages of binders. I usually go for panels not so dense, not so tightly compacted.
Color's another thing... I prefer panels of a lighter color - not the dark brown ones.
If I'm using a panel of an unknown nature I'll often buy a small sample, or ask to keep any damaged chunks that may be near the bin. The stuff does get abused in-store. Then I'll run a few tests. First, I'll apply two solvents to see if anything rubs off on a white rag - I like alcohol & paint thinner. Harsher solvents are likely to be unfair tests since you KNOW there are binders in there. Second, on a virgin section I'll test a couple coats of solvent-based Kilz to see if it encapsulates the binders or if stains leak thru.
Good luck.
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Old 10-17-2009, 07:58 PM
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willpaintforever willpaintforever is offline
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Re: oil on masonite -question?

Thankyou for your advice Steve

I have been using this tecnique for decades (lol) and really find your thoughts most enlightening.

The more I study this problem, the more I am becoming a bit confused.
I like your 'commonsense' practical testing approach to this problem.

The harder, denser panels are likely to holdup to abuse longer...
what kind of abuse do you mean Steve?

Second, on a virgin section I'll test a couple of coats of solvent-based Kilz to see if it encapsulates the binders or if stains leak thru...
What is Kilz? I am in Australia, perhaps the product has a different name here?

Last edited by willpaintforever : 10-17-2009 at 08:04 PM. Reason: forgot to add something
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:22 AM
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Re: oil on masonite -question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by willpaintforever
I have been painting oils/glazing on masonite for 33 years and love the fine details that this smooth surface allows.

I have always bought in bulk/prepared various sized boards,and this meant that something was always on hand when inspiration struck.

This year I have finally run out of my supply and my framer has suggested strongly that I do not use new masonite as it contains glues etc due to waterproofing, that will leach into my paintings in the future.

I now need to move with the times and find a new board to use.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

thanks guys

Hi,
I paint on pressedwood/hardboard...both untempered and tempered. I think both the gessoed Artboard and Gessobords are good. But when I need to work large I get someone to mount a board for me on a frame and then I follow Isabel Bishop's formula for preparing board.
It's laborious, so I only do it for large jobs or pieces of unusual ratios not commercially available.
You can find her approach and ideas in an Oral history interview with Isabel Bishop, 1959 May 29, in the online Archives of American Art, Smithsonian Institution.
ps.
I generally seal a board first with a wood sealer or a 50/50 alchol shellac wash on all sizes and edges and then light sand the paint surface to give it some slight tooth and then coat with my sizing/whiting.
I updated her technique buy mixing Gamblins PVA size wit a 50/50 blend of zinc white/marble dust to get a sandable/polishable silverpoint surface.

Last edited by sreudianflip : 10-18-2009 at 02:33 AM.
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Old 10-18-2009, 08:39 AM
Steve Orin Steve Orin is offline
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Re: oil on masonite -question?

I live & work in a strange place - Theme Park Land, USA. Within a 45 min. drive is Disney, Universal Studios, Sea World, etc. Tons of like bizzes. What this means is that as a vendor to all I've dealt with a lot of situations not seen out in the "real world". Now, it may be that most of you folks are thinking about this thread only in the realm of fine-art... Pics to hang on interior walls, never to be touched by the worst terrorists on the planet - KIDS! But I've had to adapt for such. Imagine a multi-level wood/fiberglass construct to hang on a restaurant wall along a hallway to the bathrooms. Or within reach of bored munchkins awaiting dinner. Abuse. Shoot, they carve on them with knives! But along those thoughts, ordinary artworks are better served by thinking about chemical stability than material hardness. Hence, you note so many suggest the untempered panels.
Kilz is a primer/sealer very popular here in the states. Comes in 2 varieties - waterbased & solvent. The WB is great as a cheap replacement for gesso & the SB for sealing problem surfaces such as wood. I forget the chems... Think it might be shellac. (?) Been too long since I bothered to read.
Oh, another source for wood panel - I forgot to tell of it. Duhhh... You can use furniture grade plywood. Available in 1/4" & up thicknesses. Need a sawblade for fine cutting though to preclude very rough edges. These days I only use the pressedwood stuff for very thin needs.
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Old 10-18-2009, 06:31 PM
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Re: oil on masonite -question?

"Kilz" is basicially a shellac based primer--usually white (but it may be clear, as well). It prevents stains from bleeding through the next layer. I used it on my ceiling once, to prevent water stains from telegraphing through my subsequent application of acrylic paint.

My gosh, if I ever felt the necessity to coat a fine art oil painting substrate with a material such Kilz, I would seriously consider using another substrate.
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Last edited by WFMartin : 10-18-2009 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 10-20-2009, 06:01 AM
Steve Orin Steve Orin is offline
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Re: oil on masonite -question?

Such has been the thinking of many... But you also should realize that folks have been and will continue to use compressed wood panels. That being an unarguable truth, it seems wise to stack the cards in one's favor just in case the chosen panel hes bleeding tendencies. But even Kilz & its cousins can fail if the binders are very prone to traveling. I've seen it but only a few times.
Many fine artists consider everyday materials used in the construction trades to be inferior to those peddled in the art stores. Actually, it should be the other way around in many cases.
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:59 AM
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Re: oil on masonite -question?

Thankyou for more feedback on my question
I have been carrying on with this conversation in the following link in the oil painting forum (not sure if this link will work) if anyone is interested. I have added a few more images to that conversation.
Painting on board as opposed to canvas

William, upon reading your comment I went to your web page. I am impressed. Your works are superb!

The glazing technique that you show on that website is exactly what I have been doing for over thirty years. It is fantastic to come to a website such as Wet Canvas to meet others of similar ilk. My technique is not widely known or practiced here in rural Australia.

I love glazing, dont you. When I get to that point and start adding the layers it is as if the painting comes to life. I have not painted 'direct' for many years as it leaves me unsatisfied with the result.

This brings me to the question. What do surface do you paint on? I would love to know.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I have only just run out of my hoard of board to paint on and it's driving me crasy (lol)
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:33 PM
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Re: oil on masonite -question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by willpaintforever
Thankyou for more feedback on my question
I have been carrying on with this conversation in the following link in the oil painting forum (not sure if this link will work) if anyone is interested. I have added a few more images to that conversation.
Painting on board as opposed to canvas

William, upon reading your comment I went to your web page. I am impressed. Your works are superb!

The glazing technique that you show on that website is exactly what I have been doing for over thirty years. It is fantastic to come to a website such as Wet Canvas to meet others of similar ilk. My technique is not widely known or practiced here in rural Australia.

I love glazing, dont you. When I get to that point and start adding the layers it is as if the painting comes to life. I have not painted 'direct' for many years as it leaves me unsatisfied with the result.

This brings me to the question. What do surface do you paint on? I would love to know.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I have only just run out of my hoard of board to paint on and it's driving me crasy (lol)

For years I painted on acrylic-primed, cotton canvas. Upon opening the wrapper, I sand it with 150-grit sandpaper. Then I apply Grumbacher 525 Acrylic Gesso, thinned with water until it runs off the stirring stick like cream.
I apply this to the sanded, acrylic canvas by brushing it on with an interior sash brush. I continue sanding and applying further acrylic primer, until I have nearly obliterated the weave of the canvas. This is relatively archival, because I have not built up a thickness of acrylic pirmer, because I sand it quite thoroughly after every 2 coats of acrylic primer, thereby keeping the total thickness at a minimum.

Then, when dry, I cover the surface with a coat of oil paint--Old Holland Raw Umber with Old Holland Cremnitz White. I mix enouigh medium with it to be juicy, but not runny or drippy. My medium is 1 part Stand Oil to 5 parts Turpentine. I apply this with the canvas face up, lying flat on a table.
When that has dried, I apply a second coat. When this is dry, the surface is as good as an oil primed surface, but without the required curing time for an oil primer. After all, it is just paint, and it has been applied as "paint".

I have painted on Masonite, as well, but as yet, I have not gone for the do-it-yourself method of cutting it from commercial sheets. Instead I simply buy it, already acrylic primed, at the art store. I, too, appreciate the smoothness of such a surface. That's one reason I prepare my canvas the way I have been doing. I have no idea whether the Masonite that I buy in the art stores is tempered, or untempered. So far, I've rather assumed that the manufacturers are using the appropriate material. But, I've also learned not to trust anyone, when it comes to art supplies, so that is one reason that I've painted primarily on canvas. Until the "tempered/untempered" controversy has been setted, to MY satisfaction, I will continue to paint, primarily on canvas.

Lately, I have been working with acrylic-primed LINEN, and I really appreciate it. I give it about the same treatment with coats of acrylic primer as I would with a cotton canvas, although I leave a little more canvas weave, than with cotton. I have found it to be a dream for glazing.

And, yes, I certainly DO love glazing. Once learned, and practiced, my work seemed to have improved quite noticably. Thank you for your comments and compliments.
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Last edited by WFMartin : 10-21-2009 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 10-24-2009, 12:10 AM
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willpaintforever willpaintforever is offline
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Re: oil on masonite -question?

Thankyou William for your generous sharing. I value your opinion.

I have always been passionate about the old masters techiques as taught me so long ago.
I love using the ablility of the mind to comprehend an image in three different ways/stages.

The shapes that form the image
converting the image to monochrome
and the ulitmate visualising of the layers of colour that our eyes take for granted.

I find your your techincal background in the use of colour most exciting and have read your blog about colour.

I especially loved your explanation why yellow is not a primary colour.
I have always interpreted a primary colour to be one that you could not make yourself.

Happy painting.

Last edited by willpaintforever : 10-24-2009 at 12:12 AM. Reason: mis spelling
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