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Old 02-24-2009, 08:49 AM
anthony mauve anthony mauve is offline
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Transparent oil paint!?

Hello--I've been painting exclusively in encaustic for several years but recently bought a bunch of Daler-Rowney large tubes of oil to do some oil painting and found the colors to be transparent! That means to me that these colors are actually based on dyes rather than pigment and I'm at a loss on how to paint with them--or should I just dump them? My method is to draw the image on the blank canvas first then paint it in--but even after 2 coats of any color the drawing is still coming through!

Any suggestions?

anthony
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Old 02-24-2009, 08:56 AM
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Mikey Mikey is offline
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Re: Transparent oil paint!?

I read the Daler Rwoney uses wax as a binder, which could be interesting. I was given an old tube of Rowney Raw Umber and man was it transparent or what. Was there scarcely any pigment in that paint. Are the Cads and Cobalts equally transparent?
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:06 AM
CareyG CareyG is offline
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Re: Transparent oil paint!?

What colors are you using, and how are you using them, exactly?

Many colors in oil paint are transparent, that does not mean they are based on dyes at all. They are pigment ground in oil.

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Old 02-24-2009, 09:14 AM
caliban4 caliban4 is offline
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Re: Transparent oil paint!?

I use a mix of WN and Rembrandt brands of Alizarin crimson, transparent oxide red, cobalt blue to name a few, and these are transparent. Generally though, once you mix white with them they tend to become opaque.
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:39 AM
anthony mauve anthony mauve is offline
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Re: Transparent oil paint!?

Thanks for responding--no, I don't mean the transparent colors like Alizarin Crimson--it's the colors such as Cadmium Red, Cad. Yellow, Orange--even the Pthalos--greens, blues, and the Earths etc. that should be opaque or near-opaque but are transparent as watercolors.

How using them--painting on cavas. If they aren't made with dyes rather than pigment--how would one know that?--the amount of filler material must be significant.

Looking at how prices have increased since I stopped oil painting (80's) it's a wonder how people paint large in oil paint these days.

anthony
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:07 AM
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gunzorro gunzorro is offline
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Re: Transparent oil paint!?

Anthony -- You are right -- you have a bunch of cheap paint with poor coverage and opacity. Fortunately, the best paints cover better and have better intensity, so you use less of them (usually) to make bigger paintings.

Some student-grade paints are better than others. The ones you have are near the bottom of the pile. IMO, Winsor Newton Winton are pretty good, and Maimeri Classico is best among the budget brands.

Professional Artists paints can be costly, so in the US it is best to buy from a discounter like Blick or ASW.
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:21 AM
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Re: Transparent oil paint!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony mauve
Hello--I've been painting exclusively in encaustic for several years but recently bought a bunch of Daler-Rowney large tubes of oil to do some oil painting and found the colors to be transparent! That means to me that these colors are actually based on dyes rather than pigment and I'm at a loss on how to paint with them--or should I just dump them? My method is to draw the image on the blank canvas first then paint it in--but even after 2 coats of any color the drawing is still coming through!

Any suggestions?

anthony

Are these the "Georgian" oils? if so they are the student range and do suffer from high pigment content.
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony mauve
...recently bought a bunch of Daler-Rowney large tubes of oil to do some oil painting...
Georgian, yes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony mauve
...and found the colors to be transparent! That means to me that these colors are actually based on dyes rather than pigment...
No modern oil paints are based on dyes per se. They're all made from pigments, although some of them are lakes (dyes fixed to an inert substrate). These tend to be semitransparent to transparent.

Certain colours should still be opaque or semi-opaque even in a lower-cost range; if you are using Georgian then Titanium White, Yellow Ochre, Light Red, Burnt Umber, Flesh Tint, Naples Yellow and Buff Titanium should be reasonably opaque.

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Old 02-24-2009, 12:00 PM
anthony mauve anthony mauve is offline
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Re: Transparent oil paint!?

Yes, the paints are Georgian. Thanks for the list Einion--I'll remember to use it if I get any more of these paints. With encaustic painting many of the colors sold are based on dyes--pretty, but fugitive though many encaustic painters like them since they paint in transparent layers to achieve an effect of depth.

One more question if allowed--and thank you everyone for your response--could people post their favorite brand of oil paint regardless of cost? Or if this mini-survey has posted previously--where to find it?

anthony
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:48 PM
caliban4 caliban4 is offline
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Re: Transparent oil paint!?

WN venetian red and cadmium red are fairly opaque. In fact their cadmium red has great tinting strength. A little of that seems to be sufficient in any mixture.
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Old 02-24-2009, 01:01 PM
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If you search within Oil Painting only, looking in thread titles only, 'favourite brand' locates this thread:
Favourite brand of oil paint

And 'brand' or 'brands' gets you a few more threads, including these:
Favorite mid-price brands for favorite colors?
The best oil brand?
Colors & brands
Traditional Oil Brands

There are a number of older threads as well with a fair few responses but I didn't want to go too far back as revisions to ranges can make previously-held views less relevant.

Einion
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Old 02-24-2009, 01:37 PM
TimothyFenwick TimothyFenwick is offline
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Re: Transparent oil paint!?

To Anthony, It may be that the transparent colors are to be used over black or very dark gesso. I have seen that technique used to some degree. The results seem to be geared toward those who enjoy the paintings on black velvet look. Actually when the mood calls for it it can be quite impressive. If the colors cannot be seen when painted on black background and then come alive when white is stroked into them, Then this is probably what they are meant for. TimothyFenwick
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Old 02-24-2009, 06:10 PM
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Re: Transparent oil paint!?

Anthomy, remember that all these responses in the threads Einion has so graciously put up here to what the best oil paint is, are merely someone's opinion. We all paint differently & have our own ideas of what the best is. You may want to try a few different brands to find what works best for you!

Welcome to WC and the oil forum TimothyFenwick & caliban4!
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:04 PM
anthony mauve anthony mauve is offline
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Re: Transparent oil paint!?

Thanks folks--you guys 'n' gals are great!

anthony
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:24 PM
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Re: Transparent oil paint!?

i used daler rowney oils when i first began and didnt encounter any such thing, but that might be because i didnt know any different. ill have to try some i have left later and evaluate the diference. mostly what i used was winton, and they were good for the cost. now i use winsor and newton artist's grade, da vinci artist's grade, lukas 1862 (artist's grade), and sennelier artist's grade, and i like them all- so far i think the Da Vinci oils are the most opaque, followed by lukas 1862. they all are great and are opaque though, so any one of these should serve you well. i hear old holland are thick and therefore probably opaque so maybe try some of those if i can get some affirmation here. before you buy check the opacity chart to see which ones are opaque.
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