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Old 07-13-2002, 05:04 PM
defeated defeated is offline
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watercolor wash over ink

Hi, all, this may be a basic question, but I checked the archives and couldn't find an answer. I'm using black India Ink (Higgins) with a dip pen and brush, and having a devil of a time with it running when a watercolor wash is applied over it. I let it dry completely, and the wash is applied gently (no scrubbing here, just dragging a soft brush loaded with water and pigment). I thought that permenant India Ink was, well, permenant once it dried and lent itself to water color washes. Could it be the brand of ink I'm using? Or the paper, perhaps? Is this just a fact o' life? Am I doomed to lay my washes down first, then ink over them?

Thanks!

~angela
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Old 07-13-2002, 05:18 PM
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Welcome to WetCanvas! I hope you won't be defeated much longer; someone who knows the answer to your question is sure to come along sooner rather than later!
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Old 07-13-2002, 07:55 PM
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kitaye kitaye is offline
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Greetings and Welcome to WC. Higgins Ink is not waterproof which means it will, unfortunately run when ou wash ovr it. Speedball makes a waterproof ink but it gets really thick and sticky after it's been left open for any length of time. I'm sure there are other brands but that is the only one I know of.

Again...Welcome and I'm looking forward to seeing some of your work.
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Old 07-13-2002, 09:46 PM
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Permantent ink does not mean it's water proof. Even some water proof inks may still run after a wash. It's good practice to do a test strip on an area of your paper before you start your wash. There quite a few inks out there that will let you do a watercolor wash over your ink. The "Koh I Noor" brand, "Universal Black India" ink is one that holds up well for watercolor washes. It is free flowing, fast drying, and withstands vigorous brushing. Hope this has helped. Try this ink and let us know how it goes for you. Looking forward to seeing some of your art works in this forum
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Old 07-14-2002, 03:54 AM
defeated defeated is offline
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Thanks, everyone! I'll give a couple of other brands a try and see if they hold up better. I actually do have a scrap of paper that I was using as a test ground for color and pen strokes when I was working on this particular piece, so I pulled it out and tried to do a post mortem on it. Interestingly enough, it looks like the test ink lines smeared more with particular colors - one line has a stripe of blue and a stripe of yellow swiped over it, and the ink smeared terribly into the where the yellow stroke goes over the line, but the line under the blue stroke is perfectly sharp and clear. Velly interesting...I should probably pay more attention to what's going on with my test paper when I'm the throes of creation Anyway, I'll scoop up some of the recommended brands and give 'em a try, thanks again!
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Old 07-14-2002, 04:34 AM
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baquitania baquitania is offline
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Higgins makes a brand called Black Magic, which is permanent and won't run when you apply watercolor over it, here's what it looks like...
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:14 AM
*cyanide* *cyanide* is offline
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Re: watercolor wash over ink

i recently ran into the same problem...i used a pilot precise v5 pen...nothing special...and did two tests...sprayed some cheapo white rain hairspray over it...3 very light coats and then watercolored...no runs! i also pulled some pigment over the ink with no watercolor and it did bleed a little...i was pretty rough putting the pigment on both of the ink spots...the white rain also doesnt seem to compromise the way the watercolor turns out either...hooray! anyway, just thought id share
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Old 03-24-2012, 01:38 PM
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Tattau Tattau is offline
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Re: watercolor wash over ink

I actually like doing the wash first. I make a comprehensive drawing first in pencil, then apply the watercolors, and finishing with the ink lines. Gives a completely different character to the drawing!



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Old 03-24-2012, 03:26 PM
katwalk katwalk is offline
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Re: watercolor wash over ink

Hmm, I will add a couple of comments when I am doing line work for something I will be adding watercolor to I usually use my Technical pens they use Rapdograph Ultradraw ink, which is made for the pens. This ink doesn't run if I allow it to dry approx 24 hours. I have also used Micron Pens for this purpose with no running, with the microns I usually let it dry for at least 12 hours.

The other ink I use for my dip pens is DR Ph Martin's Bombay Black India Ink. But I am trying remember if I have used this under watercolor and right now I can't recall, guess I should do a test and let folks know how well it works. It is a waterproof India ink so I expect it will be good as long as I let it dry long enough prior to wetting.

As for using cheap hairspray, it may work short term, but I wouldn't use it on my artwork - I have no clue what its archival qualities are, certainly the mfg has never tested the product for the use you are putting it to. I would expect it to turn yellowish over time. Not a problem of course if you aren't concerned about how long your art will last, but something to think about.
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:18 AM
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Re: watercolor wash over ink

I use copic multiliners and they do not bleed when water is used over them and you can refill the pens
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:22 AM
ChristianRR ChristianRR is offline
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Re: watercolor wash over ink

I've tested many waterproof inks, and the best are for dip pens are:
1) Rohrer & Klingner Drawing Ink (not the Antique, and not the Acrylic)
2) Pelikan Drawing Ink A
3) Dr. Ph. Martins Black Star Matte

These three are jet black, totally waterproof, beautiful. Be ready to clean your nibs quite often though, and you'll need alcohol or ammonia!

For fountain pens, the best (not the blackest) ink that's waterproof ALSO on watercolor paper is Platinum Carbon Ink.
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:27 AM
jmb57 jmb57 is offline
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Re: watercolor wash over ink

what do others think of noodler's black bulletproof?
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:11 AM
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Studio-1-F Studio-1-F is offline
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Re: watercolor wash over ink

An interesting thread on waterproof inks for fountain pens is A Complete List of Waterproof Inks.

Before committing to a whole bottle, however, you can do your own tests. Buy sample vials of fountain pen here for next to nothing. You can test each ink and see if the waterproof properties work for you.

Jan
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