Glass-Less Pastel Technique

[dhonegger]

I have heard rumors that there is something (not fixative) that can be sprayed onto a finished pastel work that will not dull the color and the painting does not have to be framed under glass. A PVA product I think. Does anyone here know anything about this?

[Deborah Secor]

I think if you search the soft pastel studio you'll find some information on the technique but the idea that it won't dull or change the colors is impossible. If you take any kind of solvent and apply it to the dry pastel it changes its consistency and color. There is no escaping framing pastels under glass if you want to retain the characteristic dusty look of them. That said, some folks like the different look.

I hope that helps...someone with more direct experience will come along, I hope.

Deborah

[dhonegger]

Thanks, Deborah. I know, it sounded a little strange to me, too. I'll check out the pastel studio.

[Trilby]

There is a pastel artist who uses Fredrix water color canvas coated with gel and pumice or marble dust as her support, She works many layers and in between layers uses a dilute solution of PVA sizing, She keeps in mind the darkening effect and paints lighter to start with. She also sometimes uses spray fixative. Both of these mediums are sprayed lightly in several layers minimizing the moistening. The last layer is sprayed as well and worked back and forth until she gets the lights she wants, then the whole is brushed with a sealant such as the watercolorists use. They look great, the pastel marks show and she sells. She got started by ready McCreedy's book or is just Creedy? her name is at the edge of my slippery mind but is close to Jacky Boicie. I've gotten PVA and the spray gun she recommends but haven't yet experimented. I'm wondering whether the pan pastels might really be amenable to this process since they are so sheer.
TJ

[Tressa]

There are artists who are doing this. I haven't tried it, although I do plan to in the future, just because....

here is one artist...click on News and Articles...Tres

http://www.skjackoboice.com/gallery/index.html

[johndill01]

On Sat. the 21st, the Ozark Pastel Society is scheduled to have a demo of the glassles framing of pastels. Will try to check back with the WC forum after this meeting and let y'all know the results of this demo.

John

[CindyW]

Hmmmm...hmmmm....hmmmm.
I've seen threads here before posing this question before since joining this site but I wasn't at a point that it interested me.
But....now it's very intriguing, to be glassless. But, does and would ANY pastel ever flake off even with all of its coverings and layerings because there IS a layer of dust in there somewhere....or is the dust completely transformed to be a layer of adhesive of some sort? that adheres permanently to the layers below so there is no space between layers that could be loosened from the painting being jarred or moved or dropped or someone's fingers accidentally touching the surface?
And is the layering of spray and PVA so very stabilizing that one can BRUSH a sealant on top without moving any pastel around? Amazing!

Thanks for the info, TJ and Tressa....off to read Tressa's link for more info.
Hmmm...
Cindy

[PeggyB]

Originally Posted by Trilby

There is a pastel artist who uses Fredrix water color canvas coated with gel and pumice or marble dust as her support, She works many layers and in between layers uses a dilute solution of PVA sizing, She keeps in mind the darkening effect and paints lighter to start with. She also sometimes uses spray fixative. Both of these mediums are sprayed lightly in several layers minimizing the moistening. The last layer is sprayed as well and worked back and forth until she gets the lights she wants, then the whole is brushed with a sealant such as the watercolorists use. They look great, the pastel marks show and she sells. She got started by ready McCreedy's book or is just Creedy? her name is at the edge of my slippery mind but is close to Jacky Boicie. I've gotten PVA and the spray gun she recommends but haven't yet experimented. I'm wondering whether the pan pastels might really be amenable to this process since they are so sheer.
TJ

TJ, her name is Trisha Messenger, and her mentor is Bil Creevy. Both of them are very good friends of mine too. (We've even painted together in New Mexico and Italy) PVA is the product they use. Trish has experimented further than Bill did - with his blessing. Her method is very tricky, and not for everyone. It takes an extreme amount of patience and practice to get it right without changing the pastel colors too much - bu they do change. Clients love her beautiful work, but to me they look more like acrylic paintings with pastel strokes than they do pastel paintings.

Bill doesn't really describe the spraying method in his book, The Pastel Book. However, he does have other methods in which he combines various other mediums mixed with pastel.

Sandy Jackaboice is another good friend, and her method is very different from Trish's. I've seen their work side by side as they did a demo class at the last IAPS convention. Sandy's method seems to darken more than Trish's. (in some cases a lot more, but she's learned how to use that to her advantage)

Peggy

[CindyW]

Originally Posted by PeggyB

Clients love her beautiful work, but to me they look more like acrylic paintings with pastel strokes than they do pastel paintings.
Peggy

That was one thing I was wondering about. Is the look very unique? and shows pastel strokes distinctively or does it look like you can accomplish the same look with another medium that already has binding adhesives and such in it like acrylics? I couldn't see up close on Sandy Jackoboice's website. Beautiful work.
Fun to experiment no matter what!
Cindy

[LostInWonderArt]

Has anyone ever tried spray damar varnish? I've always wondered if this would work.

[PeggyB]

Originally Posted by CindyW

That was one thing I was wondering about. Is the look very unique? and shows pastel strokes distinctively or does it look like you can accomplish the same look with another medium that already has binding adhesives and such in it like acrylics? I couldn't see up close on Sandy Jackoboice's website. Beautiful work.
Fun to experiment no matter what!
Cindy

Cindy with Sandy's technique the strokes are not quite as clear. I've tried the spraying thing as she does, and wasn't at all pleased with the results. It not only depends upon what surface you use, it also depends upon the brand of pastels - the more soft ones work best, but they tend to "melt". Harder pastels such as Rembrandt seemed to "fall apart" when sprayed. By that I mean the pigment seems to seperate into strange shapes - or completely disappear! I didn't have the patience to experiment further. Obviously it can be done, but it isn't something I want to learn.

Trish's technique is a lot more involved, but the pastel strokes remain very clear. Her website is: http://www.rockmouthart.com If you click on "recent work" you can see some of her glassless pastels. You can also read about her "adventure" learning her process.

Peggy

[binkie]

I tried varnish on an experimental piece and it definitely darkened the colors.

binkie

[dhonegger]

Since posting my question, I've had other input: yes, PVA sizing is what is being used. Although Gamblin company replied that they did not know what product of theirs was being used, I found out, before they responded to me, that someone was using Gamblin PVA sizing for fabric in a ratio of 95% water to 5% size.

My understanding is that the surface is very hard and no pastel dust falls off.

I also contacted IAPS because I found out that a demonstration was done at one of their conventions and that there was a handout. They gave me a link to contact one of the demonstrators (might be one of the people mentioned in one of the replies here in this thread; I don't recall at the moment and I haven't gone to the site yet).

One of the little tidbits that the President of IAPS shared with me is that the process is not acceptable to to any of the pastel societies and would not be accepted for show. Also, they said that most galleries will not accept them as pastels. Apparently by applying this solution, they feel the look of the pastel is compromised and it is no longer a pastel.

I did find a thread here that dates back to June 2007 with lots of information in it, but I forgot what I put in the search box to find it. I think I put in "fixatives" and many came up, among them a thread titled "glassless pastels", which amused me since I thought that I made that term up myself for brevity in this thread's subject line. Funny.

Thanks for the information everyone shared. I'm not sure that I want to pursue it if the pastel societies and galleries feel that way about the treatment. Although I'm not showing or applying to galleries at the moment, I don't think I would want to waste my time with something that perhaps could end up in a show or a gallery at some future date.

[Snowbound]

I don't care-- I'm painting for me, not the galleries and shows. I could stay with the "safe" route and paint like everyone else, but for me it is the process and the image. I've experimented with finishing some of my paintings and the results weren't bad, just weren't what I wanted. This thread and the links give me a new direction to try that might do what I want-- it's the layering. I'm not married to the "pastel look", I just want to make art, and I like to paint with the pure pigments (and use my fingers!). I'm tired of messing with glass as a barrier. Don't know if I will end up with anything I wil use over the long term, but I'm going to give it a try. Galleries will just have to catch up.

Dayle Ann

[CindyW]

Originally Posted by Snowbound

I'm tired of messing with glass as a barrier.

and

and



Yah, and always a good thing to experiment just for the sake of.

Cindy

adding more: I say the whole framing thing with pastels is blah for ME but I really enjoy seeing a great painting with a fantastic job of framing/matting presentation........ and I say Wow, love it! But the work to do the last packaging part of artwork does get annoyingly time consuming. Much praise to those who do this for a living and/or enjoy it.