WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > Explore Media > Oil Pastels > Oil Pastel Studio
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

Our Sponsors
Reply  
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Bad Post  
Old 04-04-2007, 03:50 PM
catchafairy catchafairy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 284
 
Question Mixing oil pastel with oil paint

I just read an article in February 2006 American Artist magazine, concerning the artist Brook Anderson and his use of oil pastels and oil paint.

Here is a quote from the artist:

Quote:

"I block in pure colors using unmixed oil pastel. I then layer transparent oil paint combined with a lot of medium."

And:

Quote:

"When I have to mix oil pastels with oil paints, I do it on the palette, never on the canvas, because that can make the color muddy."


From what I have read, oil pastels do not dry. Therefore using them in an underpainting is a bad move. Am I correct in thinking this? If I am, then this artist's paintings will not last.

Also, I don't understand how you can mix oil pastel with oil paint. I can't see how this can be done. The oil pastels are solid, the paint is more of a creamy substance. How can they be mixed?

Here is a link to the artist's work:

http://brooksandersonart.com/pages/events.html

If I did want to use the two media together, what would be the correct procedure? I would plan to use the oil pastels on top. But would I have to wait for the oil paint to cure before I did this? And would I then need to put a frame on the canvas?

Any information you can give would be much appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #2   Report Bad Post  
Old 04-04-2007, 05:32 PM
LJW's Avatar
LJW LJW is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
Eastern Ontario
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,559
 
Hails from Canada
Re: Mixing oil pastel with oil paint

I'm sure that you are not supposed to mix OPs and oil. I think its fine to use oil pastel over an oil base, but I'm not sure whether you have to leave the oil to cure or just to surface dry. I believe Pat uses OPs over an oil-stick base. I agree with you that I'm not sure how you would go about mixing OPs and oils on the palette and I don't see why you'd want to. I've just tried mixing Dorland's wax medium into oil paint and that works well, giving an icing-like thickness to the oil paint. It extends the paint and yields an impasto effect. Jane
__________________
I am a member of the
Reply With Quote
  #3   Report Bad Post  
Old 04-04-2007, 07:40 PM
laika's Avatar
laika laika is offline
Enthusiast
Deep in the American South
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,132
 
Hails from United States
Re: Mixing oil pastel with oil paint

Quote:
Originally Posted by catchafairy
From what I have read, oil pastels do not dry. Therefore using them in an underpainting is a bad move. Am I correct in thinking this? If I am, then this artist's paintings will not last.

sounds like a recipe for disaster permenance-wise. that's not the way to build an oil painting that's gonna last.
__________________
Lamar

"Art is life's dream interpretation" - Otto Rank
Reply With Quote
  #4   Report Bad Post  
Old 04-04-2007, 09:39 PM
catchafairy catchafairy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 284
 
Re: Mixing oil pastel with oil paint

Quote:
Originally Posted by catchafairy
And would I then need to put a frame on the canvas?


I meant to say, would I then need to frame the canvas with glass?

Thank you for the information, Jane.


Quote:
Originally Posted by laika
sounds like a recipe for disaster permenance-wise. that's not the way to build an oil painting that's gonna last.

So who will tell this confused fellow that his paintings are not archival?
Reply With Quote
  #5   Report Bad Post  
Old 04-05-2007, 01:55 AM
AnnieA's Avatar
AnnieA AnnieA is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
The Other Washington
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,640
 
Hails from United States
Re: Mixing oil pastel with oil paint

You raise a question I've raised before, because it's not just this artist who I've seen mention mixing OPs with oils, yet all the reasons people have mentioned in this thread for not doing so make sense.

It's a mystery.
__________________
C&C always welcome ©
My blog: A Painting or a Poem Every Once in a While...


Reply With Quote
  #6   Report Bad Post  
Old 04-05-2007, 07:51 AM
Pat Isaac's Avatar
Pat Isaac Pat Isaac is offline
Moderator
the coast in MA
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 20,777
 
Hails from United States
Re: Mixing oil pastel with oil paint

I'll have to go back and read that article. I wonder if he is confusing oil pastels with paint sticks which are oil paint. I have used oil pastel over an underpainting of oil paint glaze and that works quite well, however, I don't know about mixing the two. I will check it out some more.

Pat
Reply With Quote
  #7   Report Bad Post  
Old 04-05-2007, 08:07 AM
redclare's Avatar
redclare redclare is offline
Senior Member
Canterbury, New Zealand
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 378
 
Re: Mixing oil pastel with oil paint

It's my understanding that it's okay to use oil pastel under oils as long as the OP is applied very thinly. I have tried this with a couple of paintings, and so far (after 6 months), all seems fine.

In his book "Oil Pastel - Materials and Techniques for Today's Artist", Kenneth Leslie says the following: "Oil paint will spread previously laid oil pastel or oil stick in much the same way that turpentine will. Oil pastel can also be drawn into a wet layer of oil paint. It will melt into the paint surface..." He goes on to say "You must be very careful, however, about using oil paint on top of an oil pastel surface. Sennelier cautions against this, because although oil paint dries into a hard inflexible film, most brands of oil pastel can hardly be said to dry at all. Dried oil paint on top of the more flexible non-drying oil pastel is likely to chip or crack as the two layers expand and contract differently.... This should not occur if you use the oil pastel only lightly, in the beginning of a work, to sketch things out... this amount of pastel will dissolve into the paint and not present the problem that distinct layers might."

So possibly, if Brook Anderson is using the oil pastel as a very thin underpainting, it would not be a problem.
I've never tried mixing oil pastel and oil paint on the palette, so don't know if that's a good idea or not.
__________________
Rebecca

Reply With Quote
  #8   Report Bad Post  
Old 04-05-2007, 08:33 AM
catchafairy catchafairy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 284
 
Re: Mixing oil pastel with oil paint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Isaac
I'll have to go back and read that article. I wonder if he is confusing oil pastels with paint sticks which are oil paint. I have used oil pastel over an underpainting of oil paint glaze and that works quite well, however, I don't know about mixing the two. I will check it out some more.

Pat

That is a possibility.

When you use oil pastels over oil paint, do you wait for the paint to cure, or is it just dry to the touch? Technically speaking, what is the correct way to use oil pastels over oil paint?

Thank you for the info, redclare. It seems like taking chances when you put the oil paint over the oil pastel.
Reply With Quote
  #9   Report Bad Post  
Old 04-05-2007, 11:28 AM
catchafairy catchafairy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 284
 
Re: Mixing oil pastel with oil paint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Isaac
I wonder if he is confusing oil pastels with paint sticks which are oil paint.
Pat


I was looking through the article, and it says that the artist first outlines the major forms using large sticks of Sennelier and Holbein oil pastel.

Holbein doesn't make paint sticks. So he must be using the op's.
Reply With Quote
  #10   Report Bad Post  
Old 04-05-2007, 11:43 AM
starblue's Avatar
starblue starblue is offline
Veteran Member
Austin, TX
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 830
 
Hails from United States
Re: Mixing oil pastel with oil paint

Then it's probably OK. John Elliott does the same thing: he shows a OP sketch that he paints over in oils in his book "Oil Pastels for the Serious Beginner", p. 107. I notice he only did an outline in OP the way a watercolorist might lay in an initial sketch using pencil, not a full grasaille underpainting.
__________________
Bob

Reply With Quote
  #11   Report Bad Post  
Old 04-05-2007, 03:23 PM
laika's Avatar
laika laika is offline
Enthusiast
Deep in the American South
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,132
 
Hails from United States
Re: Mixing oil pastel with oil paint

i'd love to use my Prussian Blue OP for a base sketch for an oil painting, but oil paint over a non-drying medium... i dunno... maybe a very light sketch fixed with re-touch varnish would work, but i imagine that a purist would say no.

i try to remain open to correction, but i vote no. i'd love to be found wrong on this, though.
__________________
Lamar

"Art is life's dream interpretation" - Otto Rank

Last edited by laika : 04-05-2007 at 03:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12   Report Bad Post  
Old 04-05-2007, 05:11 PM
redclare's Avatar
redclare redclare is offline
Senior Member
Canterbury, New Zealand
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 378
 
Re: Mixing oil pastel with oil paint

Quote:
Originally Posted by catchafairy
When you use oil pastels over oil paint, do you wait for the paint to cure, or is it just dry to the touch? Technically speaking, what is the correct way to use oil pastels over oil paint?

Maybe I shouldn't take everything Leslie says as the gospel truth... but as mentioned in the quote in my previous post, he says it's fine to apply oil pastel over a wet layer of oil paint - "it will melt into the paint surface.." But my own experience with this is limited..

Quote:
Originally Posted by catchafairy
Thank you for the info, redclare. It seems like taking chances when you put the oil paint over the oil pastel.

I find that when I use oil pastel in combination with turpentine -- applying a thin layer of OP (on a gesso-primed sheet of paper), then spreading the pigment around with a brush containing a small amount of solvent -- these areas of the painting dry completely, unlike areas where OP alone is applied. So likewise I would think if a bit of turpentine is used with oil paint as an initial lean layer over thinly applied OP, there shouldn't be a problem... the OP "will dissolve into the paint".

Anyway, I haven't seen the article, and I don't know exactly what this fellow is doing. Maybe his technique is risky. I guess because the medium hasn't been around very long, there is still a lot of uncertainty about its handling characteristics and permanence issues when combined with other media.
__________________
Rebecca

Reply With Quote
  #13   Report Bad Post  
Old 04-06-2007, 04:36 PM
redclare's Avatar
redclare redclare is offline
Senior Member
Canterbury, New Zealand
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 378
 
Re: Mixing oil pastel with oil paint

Quote:
Originally Posted by laika
i'd love to use my Prussian Blue OP for a base sketch for an oil painting, but oil paint over a non-drying medium... i dunno... maybe a very light sketch fixed with re-touch varnish would work, but i imagine that a purist would say no.

i try to remain open to correction, but i vote no. i'd love to be found wrong on this, though.

This is an issue I'm very interested in and wish I knew more about. The fact that a couple of long-time OP artists advocate using oil pastels as a light under-drawing puts my mind at ease about it a little bit... maybe the key being a light application.

I have a painting that I did awhile ago where I left a large area that had been painted by applying oil pastel and then spreading the pigment around with a small amount of solvent on a brush, without any further layering of pastel. This area of the painting is completely dry to the touch, not the least bit tacky like other areas of the work. Okay, I know this isn't exactly the same thing as using oil paint over oil pastel, however Kenneth Leslie suggests that oil paint used over oil pastel acts in the same way as solvent.

Brook Anderson says he "layers transparent oil paint" (over the previously applied OP) "and a lot of medium"... So I'm wondering if a lot depends on proportions (of oil pastel and oil paint - and medium?) used.

I think it's good to experiment (but maybe not on commissioned work or a painting you are planning to give to a special friend ).
__________________
Rebecca

Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:19 AM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.