Black background for shadows

[Yusuke]

Hello oilpastelists,

I have painted these French breads on a black paper. Very black.
It was a bit hard to fix the color on the paper and to express the shadow. There are no blacker color than the background then I painted brighter part of the table to express shadows. So interesting that spatial depth can be seen in this total darkness, isn't it? It reminds me of the works by Caravaggio.

I wanted to post this to Weekly Sketch thread of Pastel Talk forum but it took more than an hour (90 mins)... so I decided to post this here as a new thread. Oil pastels on B3 sized canson black paper. Top and down are trimmed. Thank you for looking.

[AnnieA]

Yusuke: I like this piece quite a bit. The sense of bright light falling on the bread and just a part of the table, while the rest of the area is shrouded in darkness, is very effective. You're right - it does have a sense of Carravagio to it.

There does seem to be one thing that's slightly off, as the bread looks a bit like it's raised up somehow at the back. I think that's happening because of a small discrepancy between where the light falls on the bread and the shape of the shadow area. I think the shadow would not extend so far to the left with the angle of the light (fairly high and only slightly to the right) as suggested by the highlighted areas on the bread as they are now. Or, if the shadow is accurate, the highlighted area on top of the bread wouldnt extend so far to the left, as the shadow indicates a light source that is lower and to the right, which would throw more of the left side of the bread into shadow. I don't know if I explained that very clearly - it's not a huge problem at any rate.

The bread is rendered very well - it looks so real - and it's a very appealing painting. Nice work!

[redclare]

Yusuke, your french bread is exquisite! The surrounding blackness really does seem to have spatial depth, and this sets off the warm rich tones of the bread and table wonderfully.
Like Annie, I am curious about the positioning of the loaves, why they appear to be raised up at the back, and wondering if this was intentional.

Whatever the case, it's a beautiful painting!

Rebecca

[Oleeta]

It looks to me like the raised up loaf of bread was about to be picked up and eaten! At least that's the impression I got from it. Very well done, strikingly beautiful piece.

Oleeta

[Pat Isaac]

Absolutely fantastic rendering of the loaves. I really like the texture of the crusts and the drama of the whole piece.
I agree that the loaf looks as if it is raised up. Could be that you nedd to extend the shadow all the way to the end of the loaf.
It's still awesome.

Pat

[rain24]

Very dramatic Yusuke. I really like this a lot. I love pastels done on dark paper .

~Rain

[LJW]

Delicious looking bread and a dramatically lit painting. I think the problem with the sense of the bread being suspended above the surface is that you have carried the light tablecloth under the end of the foremost loaf. As Pat suggests, the shadow should extend to the end of the loaf. The texture of the cloth is well rendered. Excellent work. Jane

[AnnieA]

Originally Posted by Pat Isaac

Could be that you nedd to extend the shadow all the way to the end of the loaf.

Pat and Jane: Yeah, that would help too. It all just depends on where the light source is, and there are a variety of ways that Yusuke could resolve it.

Yusuke: I hope that my efforts to describe some possible improvements in that first post didn't make it seem that my small criticism was larger than it was. It should be a relatively easy thing to correct. Please know that I think this is really very well done and a beautiful painting.

[Yusuke]

Thank you for the constructive suggestions, everybody!
Yeah, it looks as if it was raised up as you all have mentioned. Because of its irregular rough surface at the loaf bottom? Or just a miracle? I think I carefully observed but that was not enough...
Well, anyway I tried to retouch the shadow (and table too) a little. Mmm.. still floating? Sorry that it's impossible to restage the setting - I ate the bread! More c&c are welcome. Thanks for looking again.

Annie,
Thanks for your suggestion and care. Yes, I agree with you. It seems that there's a discrepancy between the highlighted area and the shadow. The light source is in the higher right and slightly back. But I don't think the highlighted area is supposed to be like this because the light from the next room may affect a bit... Since it is impossible to set the same positioning again, I think I better look for better improvement.

Rebecca,
Thanks for your kind comment. Intensionally raised up...so meaningful...

Oleeta,
Thanks, yes this bread has been eaten right after painting this...

Pat,
Distance between the shadow and the end of the loaf? Yes, I moved the shadow a little closer to the loaf but then does it look like the table is sideling?

Rain,
Yes, the colors of pastels look really sharp with the dark background. I found that thru painting this work.

Jane,
The relationship between the object (and highlight on it) and shadow is quite important as you mentioned. This is a good lesson.

[AnnieA]

Yusuke: The way you show more of the table in front seems to have helped. It's looking better, but you're right, it's still raised up a bit in the back. I think if you made the shadow along the side parallel to the edge where the bread loaf meets the table, rather than slanting toward the back, that would probably help to solve the problem. Since the light is coming primarily from above, I think the shadow at the side would be thinner anyway. You'd have to draw a slanting line at the front, but other than that, it would be a fairly easy change. And there would probably be just a little more shadow area at the back end of the bread loaf; since the light source appears to be coming from the front a bit, the bread would cast more of a shadow on the table at the back.

If you made these small revisions wouldn't give you complete, textbook accuracy, but I don't think anyone would know, especially since the painting is so effective on so many other levels. Looking at your painting makes me hungry! That bread looks yummy! I think I'll go make myself a sandwich for dinner!

[starblue]

Hi Yusuke. I've made a mockup of your situation as I understand it and included a couple graphics to elucidate Annie's point.

The first picture shows the setup. I put a paper towel roll on top of my printer (the surface is ever so slightly curved, not flat, but not enough so to invalidate the mockup) and illuminated it with a desk lamp, which is set up about 12" ahead, 18" above, and 30 degrees behind the axis of the tube. (These numbers are eyeballed--I didn't get out a ruler and protractor!)



The second picture puts the camera at the viewer's eyepoint. Now you can see that the shadow's edge (the one nearest you) and the tube's edge (where it touches the surface) are parallel. As long as the light is some distance away from the tube, the two edges remain parallel although the shadow gets thicker or thinner. Only if the light gets very close to the front of the tube does the shadow become triangular.



I must say, your bread looks a lot yummier than my paper towel tube!

[redclare]

Yusuke, I think the loaves are hovering only slightly above the table now in your updated version . I believe Annie's suggestion and starblue's mock-up clarify the issue really well. I wonder also if the extreme blackness of the shadow under the bread - the fact that (at least in the photo) it appears to be the same value as the background - contributes to the floating effect as well. Perhaps lightening this shadow ever so slightly might help(?)..

Originally Posted by Yusuke

Thanks for your kind comment. Intensionally raised up...so meaningful...

Well I wasn't really meaning to be "kind" by asking if you raised the loaves intentionally.. Whenever I make bread - which is admittedly not often - I put it on a wire rack shortly after it comes out of the oven so that air can circulate around the bottom of the loaf. So I suppose I was just wondering if you might have put something under your bread to prop it up .

I like your "miracle loaves" very much!

Rebecca

[Pat Isaac]

Yes, I think the recent suggestions were very good and I think that would be a great title. "Miracle Loaves".

Pat

[Yusuke]

Thanks a lot for these great suggestions, Annie, Bob, Rebecca and Pat. I really appreciate your comments.
Especially Bob's mock-up pictures are so informative.

So... retouched the miracle loaves again. They landed?

[hopalong]

Yusuke, I learned so much by looking at your work and reading everyone's comments. Lovely job and your bread is rendered soooooo very well. You are the king of op food!