Advice.

TinaD · #1 12-17-2006, 12:12 PM

Okay, so I agreed (verbally) to do a commission for someone at work. She and her friend wanted a large painting for the wall in their living room. So, they came over to my studio to look at my work. They liked one of my paintings in terms of size (78" x 44")...they liked the colors in one study and the composition in another. Fine, we have an idea where we are going. The next day I went to their house to see the room the painting was for. They had painted it a dark Olive Green, hence the desire to have a bright painting to liven up the room. We agreed that the painting would need to be narrower than mine, since it was to hang above a sofa and there wasn't room for something so wide. So the dimensions are now 78" x 24".

Then we get to discussing price...I'm looking forward to the piece so I give them an estimate that is low for me $1,200...they hesitate and offer $800. So in my mind I'm already doing this painting so I agree verbally.

Anyway, I start the piece. They had asked to see it in process to make sure it was what they wanted. So I invited them to see it three weekends runningeach time they said they would stop by....and never did (they live five blocks away). Meanwhile, the painting is now 90% complete and it's great. And it's worth a heck of a lot more than $800.

The question is...is there any way to renegotiate or back out of the deal?

stlukesguild · #2 12-17-2006, 03:52 PM

Tina;

I would largely say NO. Of course artists in the past (Leonardo) have been notoriously inconsistent with following through on commissions, but it is not great for your reputation. You could just sell the piece at the agreed upon price and figure that it was 1. a learning experience 2. will get your name out there 3. will be something with which to pad your resume ("in the collection of Mr. and Mrs. X"). As they have not stopped by and as you particularly like this piece you might think of cranking out another version... perhaps a variation upon the theme. One suggestion: you cannot really price your more successful paintings different from those you don't feel as strong about. When I ran an art gallery I realized that to do so was to suggest to the buyer which work you thought was better... and your opinion may not always coincide with the buyer's. My gallery largely based price (within a single artist's work) upon scale. Any artist knows that some small works may take longer to complete than a far bigger work... and may be far better... but size seemed to be the only means to set up different prices without suggesting that I or the artist thought this work was better and that was worse.

Bringer · #3 12-17-2006, 03:53 PM

Hi,

You gave your agreement and so my thought can only be one : no.

Kind regards,

José

timelady · #4 12-17-2006, 04:33 PM

However, it seems part of the trouble is getting hold of them, yes? Phone them again and make an appointment to bring the painting to them for a viewing. Bring it to them rather than relying on them coming to you - they could be avoiding but it also could be that it gotten very close to Christmas and they don't have that kind of money at the moment so they're putting it off.

Something you need to consider is that they did ask to see it in progress and haven't. So they may ask for changes, which you should do as if it were 50% done or whenever you would have shown them. I personally wouldn't have continued if they'd specifically asked to see it in progress, but only if a progress painting is any indication of the finished work (which is my case it wouldn't be).

Ah, one of the reasons for taking a non-refundable materials deposit on a commission...

Tina.

TinaD · #5 12-17-2006, 05:26 PM

I think more than the price my problem is with their attitude. That they don't seem to care about the painting in some ways bothers me more than the price...I would gladly paint something at below value for someone who really cared but since they don't even want to see the painting when they specifically asked to bother the heck out of me.

Jettboy · #6 12-17-2006, 06:16 PM

Sorry darlin'; a deal is a deal.

If it's any consolation, I DO know how you feel. I recently did a large, complex commissioned piece for a client. Just the opposite of your guy; while I was working on it, the fella came by every three days and picked the painting to death..."can we change this?" "can we make this red instead of purple?" "can we use metallic paint for this part?" "this fish right here isn't scientifically accurate." blah, blah, blah ad naseum.

When the thing was done, I couldn't wait to see it leave my studio and I wished I could have doubled the price (or at least tacked on a $300—500. P.I.A. charge).

windsongmeditation · #7 12-18-2006, 02:20 AM

Hi TinaD , I hope you got a non-refundable deposit. I always get 50% before starting a commission. In my long career I have only had a few people not pay the balance. In those few cases I put the work up for sale and sent them a “Thank You” note for their interest in my work and a credit for their deposit against a future work.
The fact that that your customers didn’t come in would make me a little concerned about the whole deal.
I have on occasion re-negotiated the price of a commission after it was started. By telling them that it took a lot longer to do etc. and ask them if I could ad xx dollars to the balance? More times than not (If they like the work?) they will agree. If they don’t I think you are obligated to keep your written or verbal agreement.
Good luck…..I hope you post the out-come of this deal……Bob

Kate Mc · #8 12-18-2006, 04:54 AM

Tina, I'd have to say that IMHO if you agreed to $800, you have to charge $800. It's a matter of your personal and professional reputation. I lived in DC for a looong time, and I think in that city personal reputation can make or break you more than in any other place I know. It's about who you are not who they are.

If they end up NOT buying it, that may be good news for you. Then you can sell it for more than they would have paid.

IMHO, the fact that you let them "talk you down" on the price is YOUR problem, not theirs. As is the fact that you didn't get a deposit (if you didnt, not sure here). If you really wanted to paint it, you could have done it without their commission...

I think we can all learn a valuable lesson from this. I NEVER bargain with the price of my art. I don't try to justify the price either, by explaining the price of materials or the years learning to paint. If you begin to do that, you're already bargaining! I just say that the price is not negotiable. (I learned a long time ago that you can't lose a little on each one and make it up in volume...

) If they don't want to pay what I ask, I'll keep it. Someone else will buy it!

Good luck with this, Tina, and let us know how it turns out!

Kate

TinaD · #9 12-18-2006, 11:44 AM

Thanks for the advice...here's a question...how many times do I ask them if they want to come see it before asking them if they still want it? Is asking if they still want it a snarky thing to do?

TinaD · #10 12-18-2006, 11:45 AM

I mean we had agreed upon a pre-xmas delivery...doesn't look like it's going to happen now.

windsongmeditation · #11 12-18-2006, 02:26 PM

Hi TinaD , I would never ask the question “Do you still want it?” Always assume the positive unless they say differently.
If it were my customer I would contact them with a very positive message. Example: “We are running out of time to complete your painting and hang it before Christmas. Please contact me as soon as possible. I can’t wait for you to see it. If you like it half as much as I do you will be thrilled. It’s coming out great”.
Try to stay away from negativity. It does no good. As artists, entrepreneurs, and people, we get pretty much what we expect.
The worst case scenario is that you will have a beautiful painting to sell, as you work backward from that….It’s all good

……Bob

jocelynsart · #12 12-18-2006, 02:29 PM

Not really. If $800 was too little and it was going to cost you or not make it worth the work , you should not have accepted it.
If they refuse the piece and back out, you have the right to sell it. Then, if it is worth more to someone, then you'll get it.
Any possibility of seeing a pic of it? Is it decorative and graphic or highly detailed? I hope it was not 3 dimensionally and realistically detailed in rendering needs because that is huge and would be way underpriced.
Jocelyn

TinaD · #13 12-18-2006, 10:21 PM

I will try to post an image of it this week...thanks for all of your all support:-)

Sorry, bad english:-)

TinaD · #14 12-19-2006, 03:39 PM

I emailed the client earlier today saying that the painting was complete. Still haven't heard back from them.

Oh, and I didn not get a deposit...I know, I know, very bad...I am looking forward to getting my website up this holiday so that I can have everything there! That way I won't get into these situations.

**Lady Carol** · #15 12-19-2006, 08:34 PM

Unfortunately no you cannot renegotiate the price. Once agreed, you have agreed. How would you like it if say the car mechanic told you that it was going to cost $500 and then he comes back and says it is going to cost $700? You would contest the price. Indeed, I have done so with a mechanic who forgot to add in the tax before he quoted the price. His fault not mine.

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