Please HELP!! Have hard time controlling CLASSROOM

[Svetlana]

I just started teaching 2 months ago in a local art school.
I've never done that before other than teaching my own child.
I have 5 kids in class, ages from 5 to 8,
I have difficult time getting them just sit and listen to me, they get wild, talk while they do their work, etc.

Do you have any ideas how to do manage the classroom?
What are good age appropriate 'non boring' things can I do with them?
I don't want to just do crafts, but instill fundamentals.

I also have 3-4 years old group. Should I teach them basics or just let them experiment?

Thanks for your help!!

[JoyB]

Well - they are pretty young so that is a factor in there. How long are your lessons?

My youngest is 7 and she manages to do copy work using a grid - that is quite satisfying. They do need to really apply themsleves to something like that.

How about color theory - ? maybe finger painting using RBY and mixing different combinations. They could each do a big page of one color and try mixing say RED and YEllOW in differing amounts.. to make it more textural they could do hand prints? yep it will be messy but it will be hands on which sounds like what they need.

Stripes or bold shapes drawn on paper colored with contasting colors like red and green, purple and yellow - to see how color plays against each other.

Charcoal - for doing big still lifes.. I mean they draw on a big piece of paper
they are still developing their fine motor skills at that age. Charcoal is nice and striking and quick.

Paint to music - ( there is a thread on this site above I think) that is fun.

study graphics on everyday objects - have them collect lots of graphics and put in a book. It will help them be more visually aware of their surroundings.

Make a Texture book- have them collect rubbings of everyday objects, leaves, walls, shoes, anything! Copy wall paper patterns, wrapping paper - something with a pattern going on.

I teach 3 teenagers for 2 1/2 hours and split the lesson up into 2 sections - so 2 different techniques or aspects and allow some time for clean up and homework.

I am sure you will get some more answers here ..
Joy

[pilgrimsoul]

I have three classes all with mixed ages and my younger students are the ones who do the same thing you described. One fix was to move people around and away from each other under the guise of giving everyone 'room'. Because we have the room, I spaced one empty chair between each student. I also keep their attention by donig the lesson on a dry erase board and chalkboard. They HAVE to look forward to see the next step as I draw it on the board. We always do warm ups for ten minutes at the start of class where they have to draw two household items from a list. This is the only time that open talk is allowed. Another idea would be to bring in visuals for that young of age (the older kids love it too). By that I mean fake fur to draw, shells, leaves, feathers, etc. With each student able to touch it, and then have to draw it by concentrating on the item makes them focus in on what the task at hand is. Hope that helps!
Leslie

[LarrySeiler]

I teach K-12...

for grades 3-6 I have a marble system which works well....and it is odd to see how well it works.

I have a plastic container with a flip top lid and I reward the students with marbles for five expectations of each day's class. You can of course pick your own expectations.

I give a marble for coming into my classroom quietly, finding their seat. I give a marble for quietly waiting for instructions for the day. I give a marble if I determine they as a class worked for most of the period. I give a marble for a good clean-up....and since I teach in a public school....I give them a marble for lining up quietly and walking back to class in an exemplary manner.

If the class earns 25 marbles, I give them a free day...(worth a free day burned to get good days of hard effort in return)...which involves a dvd (I pick)....and I buy ice cream and fixings. A wholesome video...one they will yet enjoy. You might come up with your own way to reward.

The neat thing about this strategy is that the kids will police themselves, using their own peer pressure to get the others to fall in line.

I also have a green/red card system.

If the kids are very poorly behaved individually...I will put a card down on their table red side up. The other side is green.

Red means I am going to contact their parents at the end of the day with a phone call if by the end of the class period that card stays red. Of course this only works if indeed you take the time and are willing to call.

They have until the class period is over to change their behavior and demonstrate the expected outcomes, and if they do...I turn the card over to show the green side. It remains on their desk to remind them I am watching and it can be turned back over to the red side at any time.

Hope this gives some ideas....

[JoyB]

Larry - yet more good avice from you! I think I will store those ideas up for the future!

Joy

[Teachin2Learn]

Rule number one as an art educator
-always plan more than you'll teach....this includes being able to switch on the fly if what you are teaching is over their head, disinteresting, poorly delivered and needs to be rethought and retaught another day, or just a lowsy day for paying attention.

You should get to know your students and their backgrounds. You may have a few students with attention problems influencing the rest of the group. See if they have any special needs, no matter how small.

Try to stay away from rewarding students with candies and such. Read Howard Gardners "Teaching to the Seven Intelligences" and learn how to ignite the little guys intrinsic motivation within themselves. This book is a life saver.

Good luck with the little group.....be patient and always remember....they're will be days that you'd sooner forget, but than your group will turn around and amaze you!

Good luck

[tree519]

I have been teaching art in public school for 15 years. I realized early on that changing by content to make it more interesting or entertaining has a small effect but it is not nearly as effective as my attitude and demanor. I regularly teach classes with 31 students, most of whom are bigger than me in size. I had to learn to be bigger than them in my personal carriage and attitude. I act like I am in charge and therefore I suddenly am. I never yell or lose my dignity. I don't believe in training students to respond only to reward systems. One thing I do find helps is to make sure you talk about who you are and what you do and think. Students will see you as a person and therefore may not be as likely disrespect you or at the very least other students will not stand for their teacher being disrespected.
(My humble opinions)

[Rosiemarie]

I teach kids ages K-6, I agree with the above suggestions especially being well planned, have a back up lesson if things don't seem to be working. Here are a few of the things I've learned.

Never allow downtime if possible, when the kids are "waiting" they get talking and the potential for fooling around can increase, so always keep them busy.

Separate the kids that are talking too much, place the quiet kids next to the talking ones.

If you have one child who is repeatedly acting out, as a very last resort I speak to the parent. Sometimes this makes a huge difference, but if you have a child with a behavioral problem a group art lesson may be more than they can handle and one on one private lessons might be a better fit. You never want one child's disruptive behavior to take away the enrichment for the others.

As far a rewards go, I occasionally reward the kids with this drawing game: have them all start drawing something on their sketch pads, after a minute have them pass their pad to the next person. Then the student needs to draw something using the previous persons work. I use one minute intervals and pass them around until each student has worked on all the sketch pads. The results are very silly and fun, I always use this at the very end of the class.

Just my 2 cents

-Sheila

[LarrySeiler]

Originally Posted by Rosiemarie

Never allow downtime if possible, when the kids are "waiting" they get talking and the potential for fooling around can increase, so always keep them busy.
-Sheila

Hey Sheila...

I'm beginning myself to question this thinking or strategy a bit. I know its a commonly thought out thing, so no attack on you here...but I wonder if we as a culture are not playing into the impatience, the PlayStation immediate sensate gratification I want it now mentality?

Let's face it...every teacher of every subject in the lunch room talks about management problems, individual students...

Kids really struggle all through school....K thru 12...to find something worth the sacrifice of care...caring, caution and time spent. The notion that excellence can be attached to something one can have aspirations for is being lost...

If it doesn't come right away, and naturally...without hardly any effort, then kids would prefer to think "its not meant to be...."

So...I'm inclined to think teaching kids to come in and sit quietly, or wait for them to quiet down...or give them consequences for disruption and so forth are steps to inculcating ideas that will lead toward greater patience later on.

IF we fill their every moment with BUSYness...I wonder if we are preparing the future for a lot of problems.

I have struggled the past couple weeks hearing some things about our culture. For example, CBS news reported last week that 1 out of 32 adults in America right now is in prison, on parole, or probation.

Something is broken....no?

I realize it might go more smootly for the teacher to have backup stuff to fill every moment...but I wonder if that isn't contributing to what will be greater problems later on.

What about the aesthetics of learning to sit quietly before a sunset, a waterfalls?

My high school students find themselves sometimes amazed that as a 52 year old male...I have the habit of setting up an easel outdoors and paint. I mean, afterall...there are taverns one could spend time in...snowmobiles or ATV's, or things that are FUN...and there is a real confusion over doing something fun versus something meaningful.

Contemplation...slowing down...reflection...aesthetics....ultimately many things that make us warmly human, are being lost.

I think you see this especially if you observe over years the full K-12 group of kids...

just some thoughts...

[pommie]

Larry I have to agree. I often wonder if teaching children to deal well with the times that either aren't so organised or not instantly fun is something that is sadly missing from Western cultures. I've lost count of the number of times a kid has told me that they play up in a class because its boring (not always my own classes I might add haha). Lots of life is boring- banks and yacht racing on tv spring to mind- get over it, we all need to turn 'down' time into effective time. Having said that I do usually have a plan B for when classes just aren't working.

[LarrySeiler]

yep...

I actually like throwing wrenches into gears, catch kids off guard...make 'em think.

When I hear a kid say something about boredom, I take the moment to thank God for the "gift" of boredom! Why...without boredom (I'll go...) we'd be content to watch a fly walk across the wall onto the ceiling. Never answering a friend's call, or developing some unique talent or skill. Just content instead to sit there...and watch the fly.

Because of boredom...we have a cause, a cause to escape, but the real issue is in what manner or form our escape takes.

It can be a constructive personally developing and later satisfying cause... or one that amounts to nothing gained.

I teach guitar lessons on Monday nights at our school...and only a few kids ever really commit to such.

A few weeks ago we had one kid join us thinking to be interested. Like so many kids...he thought you just banged on the strings, let your fretting hand slide up and down anywhere, but somehow wonderful music came out of the instrument. Little would be required, but the gains huge. Crowds would show up to adore you...want to be just like you, and you'd become rich!!!!

When he heard myself and the other couple boys present talk about putting in hours practicing even a simple chord, or some basic scales...he sat with his mouth open. Needless to say, he never returned.

Now if we return this back to a simile of the classroom, to make the point of urgency of recovering our kids quick-to-flee attention with every moment activity...perhaps we unnecessarily discouraged this young man. Perhaps we should have fed his thinking that the guitar was easy...and "yeah man...you step on this distortion pedal and just start wailing away on those strings! That's all there is to it..!!!"

Truth is...I have absolutely no problems with kids coming to determine some art projects are very difficult, that some requiring skills to be developed are very demanding. WE do teach afterall art appreciation as well as history, critiqe, aesthetics etc., and it amounts to appreciation when later in life seeing the work of a truly skilled artist they can reflect and say, "yeah...wow, that person is really good!"

Their friend curious, asks..."how would you know?"

"Well...back when I was in high school I had this really demanding art teacher who would make us do these projects that were really hard. I didn't often do too well...but enough to know what it would take if I were to want to get good at it. Believe me...this artist right here wanted that for whatever reason, and is GOOD!!!"

So...when kids complain...sometimes I smile...even chuckle. I let them know that's why its called an "art...!"

I'm not about easy...
I'm not about babysitting or entertaining...
and...quite frankly, neither is the real world once they get out there and find themselves in it!

My concern is, what about aesthetics? Where has aesthetics in art fallen by the wayside. That old...."stop and smell the roses" thing we used to value?

McWorld has this insane frenzied pace...globalization is competitive, work work work work...

I read recently that the major difference in attending a university in the 60's-70's was to learn a philosophy to carry you thru life. Today...it is all about earning more money..getting more...and the thinking is that meaning takes a back seat to having more, having it bigger and faster.

Art...is like a spiritual venture in that it should challenge the individual to oppose and be counter culture. To see things as they are, and then using art resond to it.

Look at music...think the industry today would sign a Neil Young who looks at the times and writes lyrics to shake up the establishment or status quo? Well, not if it doesn't promise major sales.

Really...that is where keeping kids busy at EVERY moment is leading to. The promise of someone whose life is at a frenzy, busy...confusing such with having meaning. Don't ask questions...just tune in and be led by the nose.

Art asks of us to value independence...stopping to reflect, to observe, pausing...taking a big time out, and NOT as punishment!

Okay...we say we can't expect that of 2nd graders. Agreed. But knowing they need to come to a point in time they can sit, be quiet...listen, reflect, respect, and so forth we strive for what little ground we can get. This is why we have them line up...no talking, eyes straight ahead...in the hallways. Every bit helps.

But to fill every moment with an activity is to lose the value of downtime and what can be taught there.

IF we don't teach it at 2nd grade, will we in 3rd? If not 3rd...4th...6th....8th grade? If we don't enculcate this into their growing personality and development, if society at its every moment is vying and competing for their attention and appetites, when then will they suddenly find aesthetics, reflection, contemplation, response creatively preferable...desireable?

If we are honest...it won't happen. The only art that will appeal is that which can be started and finished right away, and whose appraisal is wholly on participation (thus immediate sensate gratification) and not at all on outcome. It prepares the student to believe "fun" is the goal...and not "meaning"

welcome Pommie to Wetcanvas...as I see your very first post is to this thread and forum!

[LarrySeiler]

you know...the problem is...education is finding themselves like a large wind up toy...and McWorld's globalization and competiveness for production is winding up that wind-up key real tight saying we need more output...we need future production workers.

Thing is...McWorld's ethics is being determined by share holders...and only people with a conscience are capable to see thru the veil.

I read of a toy factory in Thailand that had a major fire. There was no fire escape on the second floor and something like 165 people burned to death. Over 400 total were injured.

In rebuilding, the government of Thailand said that a fire escape would have to be installed. Well..that costs more, and share holders would stand to lose a bit more profit. So, in response (and thanks to globalization)...the toy factory said, "well...I guess in that case we'll move our company to Burma or China!"

Not wanting to lose the economic benefits of the company, the country of Thailand backed down and said..."oh...no, well...that's alright, you don't have to build a fire escape!"

This is where globalization is leading to. Companies pack up and go to another country where there are less environmental restrictions, safety rules, and pay workers less...all to promise more to share holders. For us in our own country to become competitive, we might well have to relax restrictions and rules...to draw or keep businesses here. McWorld's ethics...

Now...who is likely to fall in line and snap to, heave ho...? A conscientious individual that has the habit to stop, consider, use synthesis and creative reasoning, reflect, observe and come to more compassionate right determinations? One who is being coddled all their life that an activity-less, motionless, quiet moment is to be avoided at all cost?

People that lack facilities to think out of the box will at best be groomed only to be producers, and not having cultivated the concept of meaning...be fed McWorld's ethics that work leads to acquiring more, and that supposed joy comes from toys and endless busyness.

I'm one that thinks that mankind has a soul...and art is one redeeming entity in the public school setting that regards this. I make art...as if making art matters, and I fight with those that interpret the motivation of such mattering to mean I do so with intent to make money. We need a bit more rebellion I think, that good ole artist's rebelliousness. A rebellion not of base sensate appetites, but one of conscience.

I'm not suggesting we don't all share this understanding,and I imagine deep down we all want students to develop with depth. I am saying that I believe education is caught in the hands of McWorld, that trends are determining many ideas of what education should be doing. Universities themselves are caught up in McWorld, competing with each other for students, money, gain...and relevancy is evaluated as that which now satisfies teaching to the "test"...but, who produces the test? Who determines value?

McWorld....

[FriendCarol]

Well, I used to teach/tutor children with problems, as a volunteer in a program run by a church school... In difficult situations (when all the children were brought together, for example), I was the one the other tutors asked to take over. I've also been a babysitter (starting when I was 9 years old), and professional nanny (a couple of years I dropped out of university to make sure I could live in "the real world" :rolleyes ). There are two rules that worked for me in all situations (they even work with cats in my home ):

Rule 1: Never give any instruction/direction/order unless you are entirely prepared to enforce it. To put it another way, if it doesn't matter, don't say it. But once you've said it, go as far as necessary to make sure your direction is followed, every time.

Don't raise your voice, or make escalating threats, just follow through on whatever you said the first time. (Operant conditioning demonstrates that the size of the threat/reward doesn't matter nearly as much as that it always follows.)

rule 2: Always use the name of the specific child (cat ) whose behavior needs to change; also specify the behavioral change. So don't make general statements like "settle down now," say things like, "John, let Alice use her own pencils, please." "Tom, it's time to be quiet now so everyone can start their project without being distracted."

Speak in a firm voice -- not as if you're asking (just because you said 'please'), but as if you're giving an order. Be respectful, not belittling the child, but indicating you fully expect the child's immediate obedience. That attitude is important, as Tree mentioned.

It's always good to praise children (cats), too -- try to make sure you have not spent the entire period scolding!

With "problem children," figure out what that child likes (options). Then make contingent statements for that child, along the lines of IF [you do what I'm asking now] THEN [you can do option you like later]. Avoid threats or rewards external to the situation. (Larry, see below re external rewards.) In other words, something like: "John, I'm making a contract with you in this class. If you do not speak to the other children while they're working, you can use the colored pencils. But if you speak to the children who are working, which interrupts us, you will have to use the crayons."

Now follow through on the contract. You can make as many If... then contractual statements as you need, but I advise starting with just 1-2, and adding a few more (with plenty of praise) as he brings his behavior under control. It's important to follow through by simply enforcing the consequence, not yelling or saying/doing anything else -- you are providing a structured environment in which the child is learning to associate behavior with (ideally, natural) consequences. That's how the child learns self-discipline, which is the overall goal.

This is why we have them line up...no talking, eyes straight ahead...in the hallways.

Larry, I agree that we want children to learn self-discipline, learn to listen, learn to tolerate lack of constant stimulation. That doesn't in any way require this kind of quasi-military discipline! There is a middle ground.

As to external rewards... It is very well established (basic operant conditioning, Skinner, behavioral conditioning, call it what you will) that by providing any external reward, the inherent reward of an activity diminishes. Put simply, if you give a child a cookie for reading a book, that child becomes less likely to read, unless offered a cookie!

The red card/green card is good (it's not a reward, but a very visible 'salient' reminder), but marbles are external to the activity. Isn't there something 'arty' the children might like, maybe picking their own color of crayon from a box of crayons to keep? (They might collect them over time.) Or, it could be something nonmaterial, for example, being able to engage in a favorite art activity.

It's easier at home, where you can say things like, "If your homework is finished by 7:30pm, then you can watch [tv program that comes on at 7:30pm]. Otherwise, you will have to keep working on your homework," and so on. But it should be possible in the classroom also to find activities intrinsically enjoyed by the child, and allot time for them if/when less desirable work is finished.

Having alternate lesson plans or activities and not having 'downtime' is a tried and true teacher's wisdom, too. That's why so many teachers have something on the board when students enter -- even in high school, even in some university classes! It's helpful because coming into a new group naturally cues social activities, meet & greet stuff, all completely natural and right. So if you want a different behavior, it's necessary to provide a different cue (something other than "we're all coming together now in this space").

There's no good reason to force children entering a classroom to be silent, so they see that instruction as arbitrary... But if there's something already there to do, then socializing or speaking can be characterized as "interrupting," which is not acceptable (rather than simply arbitrarily forbidden). After all, when we walk into our work environment, social interaction is normal, right? We normally say 'hi' to the secretary or our coworkers; it would be rude not to, in fact! Children are the same, so if we don't want them to say 'hi,' and be sociable (because it's harder for them to disengage and because we have very limited time), we should have something else set up for them to do immediately.

P.S. An alternate strategy I usually used in teaching at university (which I did for a few years) is to speak yourself to the first persons entering, establishing a subject-centered ongoing conversation. As others entered, they listened or joined that open conversation. Something like "What did you think of the [assigned reading]?" worked for me. Asking something like whether anyone noticed the color of the sky (etc.) that day might work with younger children.

[LarrySeiler]

Originally Posted by FriendCarol

Don't raise your voice, or make escalating threats, just follow through on whatever you said the first time. (Operant conditioning demonstrates that the size of the threat/reward doesn't matter nearly as much as that it always follows.)

lots of good stuff to read thru here, Carol...
as for a public school with K-12 staff...much falls on what the district policies are or require. If an administrator supports their teachers such that yelling or drastic measures are not necessary, and has appropriate backup action...this is good.

On the other hand...there are districts where if a teacher seeks administrative support, that teacher is singled out as being ineffective...which then teachers are not likely to look to out of classroom support. Kids pretty much know when a teacher is powerless to be effective.

There are endless strategies, and most experienced teachers have tried many of them. We are fragmenting as a society however...from the homefront on...and teachers have to wear so many hats. One we joke about on staff recently was the suggestion of a Wisconsin legislator that teachers be allowed to get training and possess a fiream. In case of a lock down situation and outside threat. So...we now become firearm experts, licensed...agents. Ridiculous....

Larry

[FriendCarol]

teachers have to wear so many hats. One we joke about on staff recently was the suggestion of a Wisconsin legislator that teachers be allowed to get training and possess a fiream. In case of a lock down situation and outside threat. So...we now become firearm experts, licensed...agents. Ridiculous....

You said it, Larry! Bad enough expecting teachers to teach, spot learning problems, instill morality, etc. but carrying a weapon??? I hope wiser heads prevailed.

Also hope your own district has good policies, and principals who back up their teachers. In any reasonable society, teachers would be very highly paid, and well supported, and would never have to provide their own materials or texts. One of the artists at my life session group is a teacher (high school, I think), and the stories he tells sometimes are... interesting.

I wonder if Svetlana found some strategies that worked for her?