Framing questions for Pastels

Jeane09 · #1 10-20-2006, 10:48 PM

I'm fairly new at pastels, only been working in them for just under two years, but am pretty sure I've found my fix. I don't have anything framed yet, because it's hard for me to afford that right now. I work in soft pastels and don't like sprayfixing, I tried it on two and didn't like what it did to the texture/colors. My works are all right now sitting in flat storage with tracing paper between them (I just ordered some glassine)

My questions about framing: how does the framer mount the paper to a backing without damaging my pastels since they are not sprayfixed? I'm very worried about this, tho I'm sure they must know how to do it. I've tried mounting paper on backing boards myself (before painting) but it was a disaster and I don't really want to bother with it. I thought of buying pastelboard or similar grounds but it's more expensive for me, and then I wonder, does it have to have another backing added, since the mat will be wider dimensions than the painting?

This may seem like silly questions, but I'd really like to know how it works before I go into a framer. I just joined a local artists group and am anxious to show a few of my pieces.

Also, is it true that plexiglass will pull pastel pigment off the paper?? What else can you use besides glass?

Thanks!!

Jeane
My website
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Shari · #2 10-21-2006, 12:13 AM

I am by no means an expert but my framer has asked me to bring in works that are mounted to some type of board. In the past they have been able to work with just the wallis or la carte paper (which I used to mount to acid free barrier paper) but for the last 6 months or so I have either mounted it myself or had it hot press mounted for me onto museum board. It's not hard to do yourself though, I get acid free mat board or rag/museum board and use 3m super 77 spray mount - outdoors of course. It is a little messy and I wear latex gloves when I do it and spread a lot of newspaper, make sure no animals are around, that sort of thing, but it works and is very inexpensive that way. Otherwise it costs me about $9 to have an 11 x 14 dry mounted with 2" of matt board showing all around. Dakota pastels now sells premounted boards of wallis for a decent price, but it is mounted to the edge of the board, which I don't like so if I use those, I pencil off an area so I can have a 1" edge to handle.

MarshaSavage · #3 10-21-2006, 10:40 AM

Jeane,
If you don't want to either dry mount the paper beforehand (by the framer), or spray mount yourself, then you can hinge the work to a backing board -- such as foam core.

You need acid free tape and you put one piece of tape on the back of your paper (your painting) with it sticking out about an inch above the top. I usually use at least two of these spaced about 1/3 in from each edge. Of course if you have a longer piece, you might put one in the middle and then one at each edge about 1" in. Then put a piece of tape across the extending piece which will tape your work to the backing board. It will look like a "T" -- if you get the picture. This is "expected" way to "hinge" your work. You let the rest of your painting hang free for expansion purposes.

But . . . having said that . . . I sometimes put a "hinge" at the bottom or sides of my paintings since I don't use mats. It is the same size as the opening for my frame. I use spacers that stick to the glass -- and sometimes if I don't hinge the sides or bottom the painting could slip off the spacer and create a bulge toward the middle. So I don't take the chance.

Anyway, give the hinging method a try -- it is probably the prefered method. Most conservators don't like things to be mounted to the backing. It hinders the restoration if your painting should ever need it. But, I do mount my larger pieces as it will keep the paper from buckling.

Katherine T · #4 10-21-2006, 12:39 PM

here's an illustration of how to hang on to a back board as described by Marsha

http://www.diyframing.com/articles_s...m?ArticleID=16

(I never 'got' this method until I saw a picture of it!

)

PeggyB · #5 10-21-2006, 02:42 PM

You got good information from Shari regarding 3M 77 spray mount, and good information from Marsha backed up by Katherine regarding how to make a "T" hinge. Now as to the glass v plexi question.

This is an on going "controversy" with pastelists. One important issue for me is that I use sanded surfaces on which to paint: my own prepared with pumice etc, Wallis, or Art Spectrum. Those surfaces almost always hold a lot of pastel without spraying - when I do spray I use Les Caux fixative if I don't want the colors to change much (if at all) or Grumbacher or Blair final fix if I want to spray in between layers to super fix it and don't mind a bit of color change. I don't have a problem with the plexi attracting the pastel because I first of all use at least a 1/4 inch barrier between the artwork and the plexi. This can be done by using foam core under the mat (single or double ususally) to create a space for any dust that might fall straight down and not on to the mat surface. (cut the foam core about 1/4 inch narrower than the mat width and affix it to the mat with double backed tape.) I use anti static cleaner on the plexi, and off it goes to a show. I've also used it permanently on large pieces that I wanted to weight less, and they are still dust free. Even glass can get a ghosting of pastel if it isn't framed properly.

As for Marsha's method of no mats well I've tried that too recently,and I like it. I'm seeing more and more pastels framed this way. I was just in Oregon at the Pastel Society of Oregon's National open competition show, and saw several pieces from around the country framed without mats. Some of my favorite were not only framed without mats, but also placed directly against the glass or plexi without a channel spacer. This method has been long accepted in Europe, and we don't read of any of their pastels being ruined because of it. If you use reflection control glass or plexi, they look as though there is nothing in front of the artwork! You may get some resistance from a professional framer if you ask for this method as they tend to think the paper needs some breathing room, and that may be a valid concern if you live in an extremely humid climate. About 2 years ago I framed a small painting (9x12) without a mat, but I did use the channel spacers because I live in the Pacific NorthWET. Channel spacers are less expensive than a mat, and the frame itself will be less expensive because it is smaller than when you add a mat to the size. I used (and most of those I saw at the show) at least a 2 inch wide frame on a small painting, wider on a large painting. Mine is dark wood with a gold inner edge. Some people used a linen liner with gold filet edge (more expensve by far!) and it had the appearance of an oil or acrylic painting. If I were you, I'd start small and see what you like. Then insist that the framer works the way you want them too.

Framing isn't difficult to learn - especially without a mat. American Frame (on line) is very helpful if you call them. They even have a line of mats that you can choose from that are free when buying a frame from them. They don't sell glass (only plexi), but glass is available from many sources including Home Depot or Lowes or Jo Ann Fabrics & Crafts if it is large enough to have a framing department. Here is what you can get from American Frame and probably other on line frame suppliers too:
* frame (assembled free if it is under 24x30 inches)
* mat/s
* foam core backing
* plexi and plexi cleaner
* framers tape - recommended
* tools for inserting wire brads to hold the whole thing together (they include another method with the frame, but I don't know how firmly it will hold the work - you might ask them)
* double backed tape and tape dispenser (not absolutely necessary, but convenient for putting a paper backing on the back of the frame when finished. You can buy Scotch brand double backed tape from most office supply stores in small dispensers that will also work, but if you're going to do much framing in the long run it is more expensive.)
* paper trimmer (really not necessary, but again a convenience when trimming the paper on the back of the frame.)
* A book on basic framing! I just went to the website and there it was. Go to http://www.americanframe.com/ and look under the "more" tab then click on "accessories" and you'll fine a whole lot of what you'll need to become your own framer thus saving the worry of working with someone who doesn't know how to handle your work or if they do know they charge you a lot of money!

If you have any questions about framing, feel free to PM me. I worked at a gallery that did framing for 14 years.

Peggy

MarshaSavage · #6 10-21-2006, 03:45 PM

Wow -- Peggy, wonderful added advice. She should be good to go now!

I love my work without a mat, and I frame larger pieces directly against the glass and especially like that look. I have started using Museum UV Reflection Control glass on my larger works -- and I really like the look of that.

So . . . Jeane, Peggy's advice about learning to do your own framing is very good. Try it, you'll like have the control over your own work!

johndill01 · #7 10-21-2006, 10:27 PM

I too now frame most work without the mat. Normally use a spacer between the glass and the paper which is mounted on foamcoare using the 3M #77 spray. Have also framed one small work directly on the glass, without any sign of damage in almost 3 years. Also wanted to add that Home Depot and Lowes in our area (North West Arkansas) have discontinued cutting glass and most are phasing out sales of plexi. Really puts us in a bind to find a source of glass without paying a premium.

John

Dot Hoffman · #8 10-22-2006, 11:44 AM

Hi, recently Framations

http://www.framations.com/home.html

framed a pastel using a spacer under plexiglas. They don't handle glass, but they do use an anti-static on their plexi. They do a great job and are very reasonably priced. You might contact them with questions. Either Sarah or Amy will be more than glad to help you out.

Ingridjanssen · #9 10-23-2006, 04:21 AM

I must admit that I was stunned to read all the topics on WC about framing pastels, and never read anything about framing without a mat, directly behind glass. This is the first time it's mentioned as a possibility, so I can let go of the idea that what I have been doing all these years is wrong

.

I always frame my pastels directly behind glass, sometimes without, mostly with a mat. But the only functionality of the mat is for the eyes, since I find them to be very stylish. The mats I use are made of the same paper board I paint my pastels on.

I've been doing this since I started my first pastel, about 20 years ago. They are still hanging on the walls of my parents' house, and there's been no decrease of quality. Maybe that's because of my style of painting (very thin layers) and I alway tap the painting very firm on the back before final framing. The humidity in our little country is quit high but I never found any of my pastels to be affected by that.

Katherine T · #10 10-23-2006, 05:50 AM

I'm rating this thread after reading Peggy's excellent advice.

And I'm just wondering whether there is an article about framing about pastels in the WC/pastel archives anywhere which needs updating - and if not, whether there maybe should be?

I too like framing without a mat and am keen on learning as much as I can about this.

MarshaSavage · #11 10-23-2006, 10:29 AM

There is a lot of controversy about framing a pastel painting directly against the glass. If you do a search with "framing pastel" you will find on about page 7 of the search a good discussion about the pros and cons of framing against the glass, using plexi versus glass, and the various kinds of glass. There are replies from a person that worked at the Nat'l Gallery in Washington, D.C. who is really against framing against the glass.

But . . . I was included in the article in Pastel Journal December 2004 with pictures of how I frame without mats and spacers. I still am doing this when I have a larger piece -- usually something larger than 16" x 20". I am also beginning to use the Non-Reflective Glass UV rated (not the Museum Glass), but almost. It costs about 3 or 4 times the price of normal picture glass. But, with the larger paintings, it really is not a huge addition to the price. When you are talking $1200 or up, the addition of another $100 is not a big deal.

But . . . when I can, I use the black plastic spacer that you put on the edge of the glass -- I love the way this looks.

When I put against the glass, I hinge my painting to the backing (usually foam core) -- which is tape extending from the back of the painting, and over to the back side of the foam core and taped down. The tape is also taped down to the front of the foam core. I use the white artist acid free tape to do this.

Then I place the piece of glass directly on the painting, being careful not to slide it around. I cut pieces (or tear) of the acid free tape about 1 1/2" to 2" long and barely cover the edge of the glass, placing it long ways on the edge, then continue down the side, covering the edge of the sandwiched painting and foam core, then around to the back of the foam core. The part on the glass is going to be covered by the edge of the frame -- so the tape is probably covering only about 3/16 of the glass. I put two of these pieces on each side of the painting. This leaves part of the package with nothing keeping air from entering the space between the glass and the painting. I think it helps the painting breath. I also burnish the tape to the edges of the glass, and foam core. Be careful not to run your finger to the glass -- it will cut you. But, I have never cut myself doing this.

I place the whole package in the frame, putting a couple of offset metal pieces screwed down to the frame (usually this package is deeper than the rabit of the frame). I only put a couple in place, then turn it over and make sure none of the tape shows. If it does, I make sure to either move the package up or down in the frame to accomodate this, or remove the tape and try again with it not quite as much covering the glass. Rarely do I have to do this.

Remember, there is controversy about doing it this way, but my galleries love it, and my customers do also. I love not having to use mats, and have the inherent "dirty" mats after time. Also the whole package is smaller in dimension, not having the added inches of the mats and the added size of the frame -- cost is kept down also.

Also, I had a painting accepted into the Pastel Society of America show this past September, and I framed my painting this same way, using plexi glass because of the shipping. Of course, the weight was lighter because of this also. I have the painting back now, and there are not any discernible scratches on the plexi, and I can't see any ghost image on the plexi -- it is flat against the painting!

Hope this helps you if you wish to try it.

PeggyB · #12 10-23-2006, 02:09 PM

Marsha could you be a little more helpful in helping me find the discussion by the person who worked at the Nat'l Gallery who's against framing against glass? I seem to be "search challenged" today, and can't find exactly the article you mentioned.

btw - you've given a very good description of how you handle this method. I'd not thought of taping the whole "sandwich" with spaces for air to enter.

Peggy

vrashton · #13 10-23-2006, 02:11 PM

I've never heard about framing pastels against the glass. Do you spray first with fixative? & if not, if the pastel comes off on the mat why does it not come off on the glass? What anti-static is used on plexi? Learning all this could save me a lot of money on framing.
Val

Dot Hoffman · #14 10-23-2006, 02:48 PM

Val, I believe Framations uses a product called Novus 1 Plastic Clean and Shine on plexi. I know they sell it. Here's a link to their site. http://www.framations.com/home.html

MarshaSavage · #15 10-24-2006, 09:39 AM

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229224

Okay I am trying to post the link to the discussion that was started on 11/9/04 by Carol Gray. This discussion has some input by Marc Hanson and his friend from the Nat'l Gallery. Hope it works -- it is quite a discussion.

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