Sorting by values, duh

[Bill Foehringer]

I was busy painting outdoors and noticed that as I used a stick I sorted it by value when putting it down to pick up another. I had these little piles of pastels all sorted by value by the end of the paintings. I also noticed that if a color of the same value rubbed off it's neighbor it wasn't such a big deal unless I really needed a pure color. Duh! I realized that I was seeing more in terms of value, as opposed to color, than before. As I laid the various colors side by side I found a better understanding of how different colors, warm and cool have similar values. So, now I'm going to lay out my working pastels in my Guerrilla box trays by value to reinforce seeing by value. (I had them laid out by color before) I'll do the portable trays first and then sort my large studio tray.
I also noticed at the beginning of one painting that I roughed it in with a mid value. I reached for a mid-tone where I usually automatically use the darkest darks first. Sometimes using the darkest first will still be better. On this trip though I felt more comfortable with my value sense to go with the mid-tones first (In my mind I could see up and down the value scale) when I felt it would be easier to keep the darks from dulling down the lights by doing the darks later. I could see the mid-values better. I had sketched the scene first in pencil as a thumbnail showing basic values. I didn't want the darks to contaminate the lighter values coming later. Both of these developments were encouraging because I was working automatically in these areas where I had to conciously, by rote almost, think about these things.
Third my digicam (Kodak) is still not recharging the battery. It's a new battery, but is a Radio Shack brand.
So no pictures of the five paintings I did in Northern Wisconsin or any place else, BillF

[Malvasia]

This is an interesting tip... might try something of that kind too

[KA Obee]

When you get that battery to charge I'd love to see a pix of the pastels sorted by value along with the paintings!
thx for the tips - they sound like great ideas!
KA

[Donna A]

It sounds great that you have found a pattern for arranging your colors that works beautifully and satisfyingly for you!!! That makes such an important difference for us as we paint!

The two most popular ways to organize our pastels are by arranging in levels of values---and then alternately---by color ranges. I still am the most comfy arranging by pigment/color---but what is MOST important is to arrange colors in one's own BEST way---which ever that is!!!

Good to experiment with different ways. Find what makes the most to support the flow of our own work!

Some folks just keep their colors in a jumble and are constantly looking for something in particular. Goodness that takes a lot of time---and has other downsides.

It's great when we can have our colors arranged in a way like a keyboard where we know "automatically" where to reach in general for a color! This is such a blessing in saving time and cutting way down on frustration!

And look forward to your new paintings! Donna ;-}

I sort by hue first, and then values within that hue. I am definately NOT one of those people who start out with their sticks all in a heap!

I've been struggling with how to store my pastels. I use multiple brands, all different shapes and sizes. But I like to have individual slots for each stick, so that I can keep broken pieces together. But of course a Unison won't go in a NuPastel slot, and vice versa. I might - might - have found the answer: a Pastel Pod, which I bought from Jerry's. The manufacturers push it as a French Easel box, but I'm interested in it as a studio solution. Its attractive feature is little interchangeable modules sized to fit specific brands of pastels. So now I can have all of my red NuPastel, Unison, Sennelier and Schmenki pastels stored in one box, all my blues in another, etc.

Actually, I don't really care about their box at all - I just like their foam inserts! I'm going to go to an office supply store and see if they have something that will hold them.

[Bill Foehringer]

Yes Donna, that's how my sticks are sorted now by color. I'm just beginning to see new subtleties in values. I'm hoping to acquire better control of values. As part of this effort I am making thumbnails with more values than I did before. Also when I'm out painting, particularly in a small rowboat, I tend to let the sticks become contaminated with each other. I did five paintings in two days. With the wind and sun angles to contend with plein air becomes a real challenge. Not sure how this new sorting will work out. Right now my pochade is full of dust from my painting trip. If nothing else it will be cleaner. BillF

[chewie]

i have troubles sorting/arranging my pastels to make my work easier for myself. i like my darks on the top of the arrangement, then going lighter towards the bottom of the tray. i like reds in one tray, then yellows, etc...but, when there is a color that is soooo inbetween, where does it go? i think if my trays were all just one large flat 'box', it may be easier to sort. and i am forever seeming to grow out of the trays! i made them myself from foam board, similiar to donna's, so i can make more i guess. but those inbetween sticks are tricky for me. this is an interesting thread, and i look forward to the other reply's.

[Bringer]

Hi,

Not being too picky, mainly because I can't keep the «status quo», I have mine by Hue;Value;Chroma. But not for long time :-)

Regards,

José

P.S. I guess that chroma means how saturated a colour is.

Here's what I did: I set aside an entire day just for sorting. I started with the reds, specifically violet-reds/cool reds. I went through all my boxes from all my manufacturers and pulled out everything reddish, and painted it out on a piece of white paper just to make sure. All the violet-reds went in one pile, all the orange-reds went in another.

For sticks that were hard to catagorize, I used a number of different analysis techniques. I painted them out again, graded from heavy to light. I over painted with with white (this worked especially well with the darks, as the result usually had a definite violet or orange cast). If still in doubt, I overpainted with a known violet blue (ultramarine) and an orangy yellow, and had a close look at the result. If I had a bright violet mix and a muddy orange mix, it went in the violet-red pile; if the opposite, then it went into the orange-red pile.

If I really, really couldn't tell, then I figured it could go into either pile, and so it did - every other one went to that pile.

Once all that was done, sorting for value was very easy.

I follow the Wilcox color theory, so for me the color wheel consistes of: red-violet, violet, blue-violet, green-violet, green, yellow-green, yellow-orange, orange, red-orange. So I made a pile of each.

I assigned most of the neutrals - earth tones, colored greys, etc - to one of these piles. The only exceptions were for a few genuine pure neutrals: white, black, genuine neutral gray. They got their own, small pile.

I would say red and green were the toughest to sort, whereas most of the others could be done with great ease.

Now of course the challenge is to store all these and make them accessible for when I want to work with them! I am making it difficult by insisting on individual slots for each, but as I said before, I do like to keep my broken sticks together!

The Pastel Pods may be the answer for me, but I do think I need a different box to put them in. For now, I've taken the trays out of my Rox boxes and are putting the pods in there.

[Bringer]

Wow Harvey,

You make it sound like really scientific :-)

Kindest regards,

José

Sad, isn't it??

It works for me for three reasons. One, I usually set out with a color strategy in mind: two pairs of complementaries, or a group of analogous colors, etc. Having my pastels arranged sort of like an oil painter would arrange his palette helps cut down on the prep time. Two, I find that I cannot rely on the exterior appearence of the stick to tell me what it is going to look like on the paper. So having a bit of organization helps me cut down on the amount of trial and error. Three, I am just not a spontaneous person!

[Bringer]

Hi again,

I also used your method of applying the colour due to the same reasons.
I did colour swatches on grey paper. I thought grey would be a good colour (now I'm not sure if grey is a colour), since white for insteance, would make them seem darker.
But even so, I have to be carefull, since the look of a colour depends upon the surrounding ones. Not seldom a colour seems something on the swatch and another when I apply it aside another.
It does save alot of time and error, I agree.

Regards,

José

[Donna A]

Originally Posted by chewie

i have troubles sorting/arranging my pastels to make my work easier for myself. i like my darks on the top of the arrangement, then going lighter towards the bottom of the tray. i like reds in one tray, then yellows, etc...but, when there is a color that is soooo inbetween, where does it go? i think if my trays were all just one large flat 'box', it may be easier to sort. and i am forever seeming to grow out of the trays! i made them myself from foam board, similiar to donna's, so i can make more i guess. but those inbetween sticks are tricky for me. this is an interesting thread, and i look forward to the other reply's.

Hi, Chris! LOL!!! I"ve built so many new boxes! Whew! :-) Just keep building. and----you can always build boxes for the in-betweens. Solves some of the "torment!!!" :-) At least until you have another idea about the colors.

Some of the "in betweens" are the earthy colors rather than the more intense primary/secondary colors. Earth colors and grays make a nice grouping. And they can be arranged either warm/cool or even as extremely low intensity versions of red/yellow/blue.

I do think it's easier to build a series of boxes---crafted to just the right proportions for your table tops, colors, etc! I just love being able to make my boxes absolutely personalized for my own situation----and you all can, too! Yea! Donna ;-}

[Bill Foehringer]

So far the experiment of sorting by value has helped me with two fundamentals: values and color temps. I feel I need to improve my control of values. I have noticed that as I have looked more closely at value I see color temp as a way to differentiate between similar values.
I only value-sorted the three trays that fit in my G-box. The large studio tray I left sorted by color with the colors then sorted by value.
Camera still a problem. Have some extra money so I will buy a new battery from a diff. manufacturer. See if that helps. BillF

[Tressa]

Donna, you are right, we have to organize for what fits us best. I found that sorting my box by value was better for me, and to heck with the color, as long as my eye went to the right value, I could find a color I liked..
I tried to sort my Guerrilla box by color to see if I liked that, and I was roaming so much, looking for values that I gave that up...If I need a dark, I look in the darks on the right side, mid tones are in the middle,(of course ) and my lights are always on my left... I am much more comfortable searching my values area for a color, than searching colors for a value, if that makes sense...
Tres