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Old 04-12-2006, 03:19 PM
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mmcaloon mmcaloon is offline
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A Question on Critiques

Structured crtiques have been mentioned a couple of times in recent threads. I went searching/researching the other forums on the same subject. Well I'm back with a couple of questions for you guys.

If I post in the Gallery and request a "structured critique" I then specify what I am looking for: i.e Critiques of values, composition, colors usage, what I did right, etc. I should expect responses that only deal directly with my sturctured request and no general responses.

If I post in the Gallery and request a "open critique" I should expect specific responses that only deal with areas where I need work, did something right, might do something different etc. and no general responses.

If I post in the Gallery and don't specify, or I ask for "Comments and Critiques", then I should expect almost anything except rudeness.

Is that a correct assessment?
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Old 04-12-2006, 03:29 PM
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Re: A Question on Critiques

Mike, not being a Guide or a Moderator, I can only tell you that the last mentioned critique is the only one that we've had in the Watercolor Forum since I joined.

That does not mean that members have not given Structured Critiques, and, or Open Critiques. They have, but not particularly named them that.

The Structured Critiques that have been mentioned over the last few days, in my mind, are the ones in the Critique Center Forum.

We can only hope that rudeness is not included in a critique, but, I must admit, some people see rudeness where I don't!

Again, this is only my opinion. In others' opinions, it may be right or wrong. Please don't bash me if it is.

Lyn
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Old 04-12-2006, 03:52 PM
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Re: A Question on Critiques

No bashs only hugs.... OMG I'm image stuttering.
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Old 04-12-2006, 03:56 PM
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Re: A Question on Critiques

Hugs back at ya'!

BTW, when I first joined WC! I was just learning (still am) how to do watercolor. I found a few members whose work I admired and PMd them, asking them to take a look at my work and critique it (harshly, if need be). A couple of those members were Pampe and Mustcreate. I found them to be extremely helpful, and they gave me great critiques, that helped me learn.

I also found that newbies asking questions are a great help to me in looking at my own work and trying to explain how or why I did something. Just because someone is a newbie or not "trained" in art or watercolor does not mean their critiques or suggestions are not valid and helpful.

Lyn
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Last edited by artmom : 04-12-2006 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 04-12-2006, 04:59 PM
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Re: A Question on Critiques

Hi Mike; I have to agree with Lyn, the place to get a structured or open critique is in the critique forum, which I have yet to post in.

I do occasionally PM a particular artist for some structured feedback...

What I would like to see is more critique here in this forum when an artist asks for it. Perhaps a sub category in the Gallery could be added for that purpose. So often, there are so many "wonderful" comments in a thread that I hestitate to post a critique unless I know the artist well.

Looking forward to seeing what kind of feedback you receive from your very interesting questions.

Cheers,

Gail
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Old 04-12-2006, 05:25 PM
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Re: A Question on Critiques

Mike,
I think you did a marvelous job of self-response, LOL! Your breakdown of the different types of critiques that are possible is really very well done. I think the responses to your threads would also vary if you mentioned you wanted any one of those types of critiques right at the start.

However, I think Lyn is right, there is a formal setting for each of those types of critiques in the Critique Forum. If you want to respond there, you have to sign up as a "critiquer" and read the guidelines they have developed for that Forum. One of which, if I remember correctly, is no "Oh, that's so beautiful" type of responses are allowed.

Gail, I know what you mean about not wanting to say anything that might be perceived as negative if there have been a dozen gushing comments before yours; however, fools rush in where fear to tread and I often will point out something that may be bothering me in a painting (usually after finding something to praise beforehand). You'll be surprised then how others will speak up once you've made the first step.

Sylvia
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Old 04-12-2006, 05:52 PM
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Re: A Question on Critiques

Quote:
Originally Posted by painterbear
Mike,

However, I think Lyn is right, there is a formal setting for each of those types of critiques in the Critique Forum. If you want to respond there, you have to sign up as a "critiquer" and read the guidelines they have developed for that Forum. One of which, if I remember correctly, is no "Oh, that's so beautiful" type of responses are allowed.
Sylvia


They are brutal , no sugar coating whatsoever. I remember one of our members courageously posting his/her painting there and then crying all night long.

Personally I think the only way one can really critique a painting is if the artist clearly states the intent and expectations they had for that particular painting.

If we don't know what they had in mind how can we possibly critique i.e. if someone intends to paint high key and we'd keep saying "more darks, more darks" our comments would be totally off the mark, whereas if they tell us "I wanted glistening sunshine in there" and there is none we can critique and suggest remedies.
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Old 04-12-2006, 06:11 PM
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Re: A Question on Critiques

Thanks for starting this thread, Mike! It's great...

Uschi beat me to the punch with her comments... and I agree wholeheartedly... my 2 cents worth ----->

Ask and ye shall receive...

Describe and explain the intent of your painting... what you hoped to achieve... what you were striving for... what gave you grief... These little descriptives provide clues for our members on which to build their responses.

A statement (which I've seen, btw) like "I painted this... enjoy." will ultimately get responses like "beautiful work", "bright colour", "lovely"...

If you want comments and critiques (which I, personally, enjoy), then state that... It allows some amount of banter along with constructive criticism... I've learned a great deal in the past 3 years from this type of posting.

If you have neither the time nor the patience for chitter chatter and you really aren't interested in kudos, then ask for a Structured Critique. Explain your intent... explain any frustrations or problems you felt you encountered... You won't get as many responses, but quantity isn't always quality...

If you don't mind a few kudos, then ask for an Open Critique... Again, offer some kind of preamble that explains what you did and why... An open critique is a little more gentle than the Structured, but it allows you some wiggle room and people who might feel uncomfortable offering absolute specifics might be more apt to post.

If you want something... ASK for it!

I have observed that our members are quite reluctant to make criticizing remarks in the threads of established artists... As the posting artist, it's your job to make them feel at home offering ANY type of criticism or comment... excepting, of course, blatant rudeness or disrespect.

And when someone offers a piece of advice that you don't agree with, you must accept it gracefully... not everyone is going to love your work... it's a given...

I really do believe that we have the ability to satisfy all our artists' needs right here in our watercolour forums... Always a two-way street, you get what you give...
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Old 04-12-2006, 06:15 PM
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JustjoGA JustjoGA is offline
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Re: A Question on Critiques

This may be the improper place to ask, but I keep seeing
"high key" mentioned... Can someone tell me what exactly
is meant by "high key" painting?

I rarely make a statement meant as a critique, because
I am of the "I don't know much about art, but I know what
I like" thought ... I do sometimes post agreement if
someone has given a comment or critique that I concur
with.

JustJo
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Last edited by JustjoGA : 04-12-2006 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 04-12-2006, 07:00 PM
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Celeste McCall Celeste McCall is offline
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Re: A Question on Critiques

Hi Jo, here are 2 great pages for high key explaination:

http://www.nitaleland.com/project/colorkey.htm

http://filmschoolonline.com/sample_l...matography.htm

Hi Mike,

I was taught that the only time we need to worry is when we think that we don't need constructive critiques.

Now, as to those who are just learning art? I don't think that critiques should be used at all. Just kudos on the parts that they did right and explain why you think that they did good in a certain area. If they then ask, "how about that area?', then tell them how they could fix that but letting them know that is not the only solution and only an opinon..

You explained what each critique was to the letter. You're a smart cookie. ;D

Last edited by Celeste McCall : 04-12-2006 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 04-12-2006, 07:44 PM
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Re: A Question on Critiques

I am a guide in the OPEN CRITIQUE forum...and help in Structured and the WC Gallery

It is set up to be a more "structured" area than the general media or subject forums. They are also not medium specific so there are oils, pastels, and even digital posted for critique.

What you will see is less OFF TOPIC remarks.

You have to specify what you want to know...that does NOT exclude you from getting that information here in this forum....but, historically, the critiques here have been less "structured" even when requested

That probably makes no sense.....*wink*

I suggest you visit those forums to see what goes on.
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Old 04-12-2006, 08:29 PM
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Re: A Question on Critiques

Celest, thanks for the links! Explained exactly
what I wanted to know, on a level I could easily
understand... Good information!!

JustJo
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Old 04-12-2006, 08:37 PM
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Re: A Question on Critiques

Mike, good question! I always try to give positive things I like about a posted work as well as what doesn't work for me with it. I hope people understand this is my opinion only and that what I suggest may or may not improve the piece in the creators mind

Usually when I have come right out and asked for help or critique, I get it and it's always been helpful to me.

I've not been a recipient of or even read any rude responses in our Watercolor Gallery
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Old 04-12-2006, 08:42 PM
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Re: A Question on Critiques

Pam, I did visit the critique section as I wanted to see what it was all about. I actually did offer a small critique on a painting in the open.

I don't believe we newcomers to painting should be shy or stay away from also giving our critiques. After all this is part of the art process as well and if we don't know the proper words so what? We can explain and learn as we go, gently kindly and hopefully constructively but as everyone has pointed out politely and never rude or in my opinion with a know it all attitude, nothing will scare away someone like this.

I know the feeling of hesitating to critique a well known person (not necessarily a professional) but I do go "where angels fear to tread" many times and other folks might not agree with what I see but who does see everything exactly the same?

We are here to learn but also to encourage. I would encourage all of those that say they are too shy or don't feel they have the right words or knowledge, sure they do "art and beauty is in the eye of the beholder" so that means whatever you see is either beautiful to your eye or so-so or really something that will bother you tremendously.

Well that is much more than my 2 cents worth probably $1's worth but it is worth about the 2 cents these days. LOL
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Old 04-12-2006, 08:42 PM
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Celeste McCall Celeste McCall is offline
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Re: A Question on Critiques

Dear Jo,
You have one of the most bubbly personalities and I've always enjoyed reading your posts.

If you ever need me to help in any way concerning art, just let me know. I would be honored by your request. There's nothing more fun to me than sharing and helping others.

Last edited by Celeste McCall : 04-12-2006 at 09:04 PM.
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