Help please, attending life group

Alison2 · #1 11-13-2005, 02:32 PM

Hi everyone, I've been to a life drawing group 3 times now. There's no formal tuition, but a bunch of nice people just meet once a week to draw. I'm getting very mixed results and don't really know what I'm doing so would appreciate any guidance.

Here's one from each week I've attended, first week looks really 'tight' second week, so 'loose' it's hardly there and the third week is very different...a kind person was trying to help me and was offering guidance over my shoulder.
I've just been trying to draw what I see, but should I be mapping out proportions first, or drawing a stick figure at the side? Help! I've bought a book, by Diana Constance and have looked at the Andrew Loomis book on the net which someone here recommended recently - so hopefully if I keep reading something might sink in....

Any comments gratefully received.

Thanks.
Alison2

skipstah70 · #2 11-13-2005, 03:05 PM

Draw what you see for sure (light patterns)... not what you know. The Loomis books are the best thing you can get IMHO, study them and absorb the words more closely than the glammy examples. I think you're on the right track if those are only your first attempts in a lifedraw class. It's never a detriment to know all the anatomy / musculature / skeletal stuff, but ultimately you want to draw only what you see and omit what you don't. As far as measuring.. you can either "feel" it out by placing many sketchy marks on the page at first, and then picking out or building up correct shapes or lines... OR you can be very methodial and precise from the get go, measuring everything... either way ..this part is just visual math... a mark / line is either in the right place relative to another, or it isn't. Takes lots of praaaaaaaaaaaactice (go for the first method : D ).

GL

S

Graphite · #3 11-13-2005, 03:36 PM

Your proportion needs work and measuring is the answer .I once watched a bricklayer he was slamming bricks down by eye without using a spirit level . after a while he took the spirit level and checked what he had done . he then tapped here and there to rectify his mistakes . Thats the way to measure when drawing ,make the marks here and there by eye then check and repair Tom.

bjdosar · #4 11-13-2005, 08:01 PM

I go every week whether it works for me or not. And during the week I practice a drawing every day. Uh, yeh, I just started that regement two weeks ago. Grab a mirror, set up some lighting so that strong shadows are cast on your face. Lightly draw the outline of your face, measure up, draw your nose and mouth draw the eyes last. Readjust what doesn't work. Shade in those shadows, then rub in shadow and rub some over into your mid-tones. use kneaded eraser for highlights.

Anyway, that's what I'm trying. After awhile you can adjust away from the hard shadows and learn the subtle nuances between mid and light tones and highlights.

Douglas R Graves books are found at the Dover web site are very good and reasonably prices.

Hope my rookie advice helped.

Alison2 · #5 11-14-2005, 11:21 AM

Thank you everyone!

Skipstah, yes, the Loomis books look really good! Thanks for the tips on mark making. I'm trying to feel my way here and hope that practice will dividends!

Graphite, love the bricklayer analogy, makes perfect sense, to correct and repair and then move on, so thank you!

BJ - sounds like a great exercise, I'll have a go. And I'll check out the Douglas Graves books too. Of course the advice helped, I'm very grateful!

Thanks to you all, I'll plod on and see if improvements sneak in with my next lot of postings!

Alison2

todd71_63116 · #6 11-14-2005, 03:12 PM

If youre going to look at the Loomis books online, and if you enjoy them...go to amazon.com or ebay or wherever and buy a copy of them...

I know some of them are out of print, but they arent going to print more if you dont physically buy something...

dont be a pirate...unless you want to get a parrot, eye patch, and a large wooden ship...lol

**macrobertson** · #7 11-14-2005, 03:15 PM

Alison, its a good start, just keep doing it and you will soon pick up a lot.
I have just bumped up the 'basics of figure drawing' thread. I don't know if you have seen it but it contains a lot of ideas and information.

Mac

Alison2 · #8 11-14-2005, 04:30 PM

Hi Mac, and thank you so much for bumping up the basics of figure drawing thread!

I hadn't seen it and it's just wonderful - printing it off as we speak. Much appreciated!

Alison2

skipstah70 · #9 11-14-2005, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todd71_63116

If youre going to look at the Loomis books online, and if you enjoy them...go to amazon.com or ebay or wherever and buy a copy of them...

I know some of them are out of print, but they arent going to print more if you dont physically buy something...

dont be a pirate...unless you want to get a parrot, eye patch, and a large wooden ship...lol

Actually ... re: the Loomis books. They are out of print, and will stay that way unfortunately. Apparently his widow or whomever owns the Loomis esate refuses to allow the books to be reprinted. I'm not one to condone piracy, but the truth is that the original Viking books are extremely hard to find, and ridiculously overpriced by sellers looking to make a buck.... you may have to resort to downloading the .PDFs. I have noticed that certain parts of some books have been printed in Germany and Spain I think, but I can't read either! There is a noticeable quality difference between the original books and the PDFs online. Halftones in the originals are much better.

Skipstah

ArtistOz · #10 11-14-2005, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alison2

I've just been trying to draw what I see, but should I be mapping out proportions first, or drawing a stick figure at the side? Help! I've bought a book, by Diana Constance and have looked at the Andrew Loomis book on the net which someone here recommended recently - so hopefully if I keep reading something might sink in....

Any comments gratefully received.

You need a strategy otherwise you will wander around like a lost puppy. You also need to spend more than one session a week on the figure even if the the other sessions are practicing at home.

I have some questions for you.

How important is learning to draw the figure to you, high, medium, low?

What do you want to achieve?

How much time are you willing to put in to achieve it?

Do you have a lot of self discipline?

Can you work on your own or do you need direction/pushing from others?

Are you a highly structured person or a 'whatever happens on the day' person?

There are many ways to draw the figure some will suit you better than others, Loomis is only one of the many resources available, he is someone you can start with if you want.

After drawing what I see for 25 years I realised that you can't always depend on observation to draw the figure. I've been converted to the 'draw what you know' school.

Naaman · #11 11-14-2005, 10:12 PM

I'm sure someone has said this already (I didn't read the whole thread) but maybe saying it another way will help, too.

When you draw a figure (especially from life) you must first capture the gesture. This is paramount to a successful drawing. If you cannot capture the gesture in 1 minute or less, just start over, and keep "starting over" until you can capture the gesture in about 1 minute. If you nail the gesture, the rest of the drawing will be cake.

First of all, look at the model. Which parts tend to protrude the most? Indicate these parts on the page, and then connect them with "bones" (the skeleton, or "stick figure" of the drawing). The parts that are key to me are the following:

Head
Shoulders
Elbows
Rib Cage
Great Trocanter (the "notch" at the top of the thigh bone, or, the widest part of the hips, just below the pelvis... this is also the standard middle point of the human figure from top to bottom)
Knees
Calves
Feet

Those parts will detemine most of the drawing and the correct placement fo them will make the drawing successful.

Don't spend any time on contour untill you have correctly placed those parts of the anatomy (within less than a minute). And of course, you are only using your pencil/charocol/conte/whatever to INDICATE the locations and approximate (very lightly, loosely and roughly) shapes of these body parts. The foot, for example, could be drawn like a simple door wedge.

You will know that you have "captured" the gesture when you can look at your loose 1-minute sketch and see the weight of the figure, the balance... as if the stick figure really had mass and needed to maintain balance to avoid falling over (when you "believe" the gesture, you have succeded).

Here are a couple of my sketches from class so you can see what I'm talking about. The first one is a 1-minute session. The second one is a five-minute pose. Once you get used to capturing a gesture quickly, everything else just falls into place.

todd71_63116 · #12 11-15-2005, 12:40 PM

The Loomis books are hard to find, but arent completely out of print.

Look them up on amazon.com and a couple are there, excerpts actually, but...I found mine on ebay and used books stores.

Just because theyre hard to find shouldnt mean you have the right to steal them.

But its yourself you have to live with.

They wont ever get reprinted if they kept being uploaded to the internet and taken without permission.

If youre all for that then upload your own works and let other people use them.

What the heck.

and i not saying not to look at the ones available for download, just if you find them valuable to support the 'cause' and purchase them when you find them.

dont let yourself get gouged tho.

Alison2 · #13 11-15-2005, 01:09 PM

Hello everyone,

Bill, you're right about the lost puppy thing! That's why I asked for help because I saw the way I was floundering - I really appreciate your taking the time to offer guidance!

Re. the questions, I'd say it was of medium to high prority to learn to draw the figure.

What I'd like to achieve is the ability to draw the figure accurately, clothed and unclothed from life and to accurately represent the figure as part of a larger drawing/painting.

I can do just one class a week but with practise at home in between.

I quite like a structured approach - but with work/family life can get in the way sometimes.

Think I do have a fair amount of self discipline - other responsbilties can sometimes boot my own desires out of the way though!

As to Loomis - No parrots or eyepatches here! Once I'd looked him up and asked round, it turns out someone at the life group has a copy of the figure one, with some pages missing but in not bad condition. He's going to let me borrow it - with dire threats that it's returned in the same condition!

Also, there are 2 loomis books on Amazon, on drawing the figure - the reviews indicate that it's a condensed version of the one everyone raves about, but it's a good price, so my order is in!

Naaman - thank you so much for the tips on gesture and the beautiful examples too. It makes so much so and I'll definitely give it a go!

Thanks again!

Alison2

jefuchs · #14 11-15-2005, 04:18 PM

I wish I could tell you an easy trick that would make it all better, but the truth is you'll have to work very hard.

I know some people who came to drawing sessions, and their work looked like absolute beginners. Over the course of a couple of years, they were drawing very nicely. If it were easy, everybody would do it.

Invest your time, and don't be discouraged. These days it seems nobody wants to come out and say that something is hard to do. Sorry, learning art can be hard. Yes, there are those few people who pick it up easily, but for the rest of us, it just takes lots of time and work. I thought I'd never learn to draw!

The good news: Once you learn how to do it, it really is easy. LEARNING it is the hard part.

I recommend Betty Edwards' book, "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain". It's become a classic. Read every word! I also got a lot of benefit from Anthony Ryder's book.

I developed my figure drawing skills by sitting on front of my computer and drawing from photos on the screen (it shouldn't be hard to find nude photos online

). I went through stacks of paper. This made me better prepared to work from a live model when I got the opportunity.

Despite what a lot of people may tell you, I recommend using the cheapest materials for now. When you start drawing gallery-quality pictures, use the best materials. My office once threw out a case of old letterheads. I took them home, and have drawn hundreds of practice sketches. Not having to worry about wasting expensive materials, I drew and drew and drew.

Alison2 · #15 11-16-2005, 01:53 AM

Thanks Jefuchs!

I've recently got the Betty Edwards book and am working my way through it. It is good, seems like kind of book that I'll keep back referring to! I'm about halfway through at the moment.

I'll check out Ryder too - appreciated.

In the meantime, waiting impatiently for my Loomis to arrive from Amazon and am on a promise to view the original version of the book at the life group!

Appreciate everyone's help so very much!

Thanks,
Alison2

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