Archival Pastel Artwork Framing Questions - Page 3

khourianya · #31 07-30-2005, 12:15 AM

A step by step framing article would be a wonderful addition to the Pastel articles....

scoller · #32 07-30-2005, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khourianya

A step by step framing article would be a wonderful addition to the Pastel articles....

Okay, after talking with Piper, I've decided to start working on a Basics Framing for Pastel Artist "thingy". It is going to be a week or so to put things together. As of right now it is uncertain if it will be an article or a thread. Need to learn how one submits an article or would it be better to start a thread? Your questions and input will be appreciated and needed.

Peace,
Stan

CindyW · #33 07-31-2005, 01:09 AM

Great news, Stan, thanks for taking the time for this endeavor!
Not sure about article vs. thread.

But I have another question for everyone and it may be taking archival preparations to an extreme but I thought it so others may have, too, when thinking about minute details with archival framing.
Do you know anything about cleaning glass with cleaning fluids other than water? I have in the past cleaned glass with the obvious: Windex. Now I'm thinking that the chemicals in glass cleaner may just be the worst thing to do when trying to provide a chemical free environment for artwork. Does anyone know if this is harmful after using it to clean the inside of the glass next to the painting? even though it has evaporated and dried in a matter of a couple swipes? I framed a couple after cleaning with Windex and now will use water only just because of not knowing.
Cindy

scoller · #34 07-31-2005, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bing

Do you know anything about cleaning glass with cleaning fluids other than water? I have in the past cleaned glass with the obvious: Windex. Now I'm thinking that the chemicals in glass cleaner may just be the worst thing to do when trying to provide a chemical free environment for artwork. Does anyone know if this is harmful after using it to clean the inside of the glass next to the painting? even though it has evaporated and dried in a matter of a couple swipes? I framed a couple after cleaning with Windex and now will use water only just because of not knowing.

Cindy,

Excellent question. You are correct the chemicals in cleaners can stay on the glass and cause problems. Not only the chemicals in the cleaners but also the chemicals in the paper towels or cloths we use to remove them.

The challenge is finding something to clean the "crud" off the glass and not leave anything behind. I've been using a commercial glass cleaner from Larson Juhl - don't know if it is available to the general public. Key is not to leave any acids behinds. Sorry folks that rules out the ole' standby of vinegar and water.

Vinegar has acid in it.

Now for wiping the stuff off. Remember those brown towels in public bathrooms - turns out they are excellent for cleaning glass. Being brown means they haven't been bleached so they are ph neutral.

Again no chemical residue left behind.

Have to admit that before all this was learned I thought the best thing to clean glass was vinegar and a newspaper. After all it did the trick for my apartment windows in Chicago. Live and learn.

It would be interesting to hear what other's use.

Peace,
Stan

khourianya · #35 07-31-2005, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoller

As of right now it is uncertain if it will be an article or a thread. Need to learn how one submits an article or would it be better to start a thread? Your questions and input will be appreciated and needed.

Peace,
Stan

Well...I did write an article a while back on how to use the article publisher...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Articles2/47843/569/

So why don't you make it an article

Thanks, Stan!

chewie · #36 07-31-2005, 10:50 AM

yupper, and article it should be!!! and WONDERFUL of you to do so, thanks so much!!!! for cleaning, i learned long ago window cleaners with ammonia in it are not what to use. i use sprayway brand, and i really like it. it comes out not as a squirt, but as a foam, and well, not to be petty, but i like the smell!! its also fairly inexpensive. and since i am using plain glass (sorry, all i can afford, or even find here!) i then use a 0000steel wool which rather 'polishes' the glass. then i use canned air after putting the glass down into the frame, to blow out any floaties. the idea of those plain brown paper toweling is great, but where to get them? maybe the school would sell me a case. i tried those 'streak free' bounty towels, and maybe they're great for the toaster and bathroom, but i wasn't impressed on my framing!

i'll be watching for the article, learning tons!!

CindyW · #37 07-31-2005, 10:59 AM

Hi all,
Yesterday, while continuing with my framing project of 15 pieces, I came across a problem with store bought frames and how they contain the painting in the frame. The glass/mat/mat/art/mount package is too thick for the rabbet space since I added another mat. The package is flush with the frame wood back so the point gun (that propels little metal points into the wood to keep the backing snug and safely set into the frame) has no wood allowance in which to be driven. I have no time/money to replace these frames...lesson learned about rabbet space and buying sale frames: figure out ahead of time how to use them with bigger mat packages. I looked at some commercial photo frames I have here at home and there is one that has a small kind of latch attached to the frame with a screw that swings over onto the painting backing and then is screwed tightly so that it's immovable, seemingly an answer to the flush artwork and frame backing. I just have to go find them today!! That's all I can think to do with this, unless anyone has any other suggestions.
I bought some offsets (small metal brackets to keep thicker-than-frame mat packages secure) but these don't solve this problem since I don't want to add a useless layer to the mat package.

And yes, where to get the brown paper towels. Maybe a whole foods grocer. Online, most likely, too. The school is a good idea, Chewie!
Cindy

scoller · #38 07-31-2005, 12:22 PM

Hello to all,

Chewie and Cindy, with regards to the brown paper towels. Check Home Depot, Lowe's, "Wally World" (aka WalMart), AutoZone, and the like. You will surprised how available they are. Look in the hardware and automotive sections. After all who wants to put brown paper in their kitchen?

Cindy, with regards to rabbits. Been there done that. You are on the right track. The offsets are usually the better choice. I've had to secure an extra piece of matboard or foam core to get the offset to fit. Sometimes one has to bit the bullet and put another layer on the back. Remember - only you will know. Don't like it - but as a friend says, "that how come we use dust covers - to hide our mistakes."

Unfortunately you encountered an all to common problem with commercial frames. The rabbits in them are often times only about 3/8 of an inch. Remember these frames are designed for people who only put one mat on a picture. I just triple matted one for Piper and it barely fit into a 1/2 rabbit - and I made the frame

.

What type of framing points are you using? There are a few tricks.

Chewie, thanks

- forgot about the ammonia issue. It is important to remember that the area behind the glass is a very "tight" environment. What works on a picture window does not always work on a picture frame.

Peace,
Stan

CindyW · #39 07-31-2005, 03:12 PM

Hi all,
My husband found turn tabs that the frame shop at Charette. They use these to secure the mat package in the frame but didn't have any on the shelf so they sold their package they had to him. He also found acid free backing paper for the back dust cover...is that what you call it?

The person there told him that they don't use acid free glass cleaner and regular paper towels with archival framing so that doesn't quite make sense to me to call it that.
Which brings me to:
If one does everything archival but leaves out one element, does this taint the whole package and it's worthless to have even bothered? Point in question is glass. I didn't buy glass to replace the glass in the store bought frames and so will this be something that should be told to the customer so they can see to it themselves? I can't tell the customer it's an archivally framed painting if it's not completely archival.

I have found that these supplies do not come cheap and I have to weigh archival framing against non-archival in all instances, given what I've learned here now.

And here is the question for selling your work framed: How many customers take the art to a framer and get it reframed and matted to replace the existing frame package? I think I'll post a poll in the near future a few places on WetCanvas to see what anyone knows about customer intentions with their artwork.

I'm hoping the cost of these supplies are recouped in the sale of the painting if I sell any of them. And if none sell, I could say it was an investment and I learned alot....and I DID learn so much! I'm sure I'll have more questions but I'm awaiting Stan's article soon!
Cindy

Kathryn Wilson · #40 07-31-2005, 06:18 PM

Wow, what a great thread! Yes, indeed, please do this in the Article format. If you follow Cori's instructions on doing an Article, it should go well. On this one, the more photos the better.

Carly, our other Pastel Moderator is in charge of the Article system for WC, so if you encounter any problems, PM her.

scoller · #41 07-31-2005, 10:59 PM

I agree with that any artwork sold as archival/conservation quality needs to be 100% archival/conservation. However, that should not mean if you can't do it all then don't do anything. So if something has to be left out what should it be? Well we can rule out the artwork.

Seriously, even if you are starting out and can't afford the best - that should not stop you for doing everything possible to perserve your work. Which means - put it on the best matboard you can afford at the time. You can always replace the matboard when funds become available. Acid migration does not happen over night it generally takes a few years. So if it is a few months before you can afford the 100% acid free/lignin free and pH buffered board - you will be okay.

Trust me -

Which also holds true of work/prints you are selling - if you can't afford to put all the work behind UV glass - simply tell the customer. Important thing is that they be matted with archival/conservation quality mat board. Those who understand will appreciate your honesty - those who don't understand may give you the "deer in the headlights" look.

That is called a teaching moment.

Most foam core is acid free so if you are using it - no problem. Don't use cardboard

- sacrifice a piece of matboard board first. Crescant's Decorative board would work for this.

With regards to recouping cost. Since all my matting is on archival/ conservation mats that cost is figured in to the cost of the job. I give people the option (expect Piper's work) with regards to glass. Most pastelist perfer the Conservation Clear...and like me drule at the Museum glass.

Finally with regards to the article...it will probably be at least a couple of weeks. Need to write - have my proof reader look over it (she says if she can understand it anyone can) rewrite it and take the pictures (which reminds me does anyone know where the battery charger is for the camera?

)

Peace,
Stan

CindyW · #42 07-31-2005, 11:38 PM

Hi all, and Stan!
How much room should there be surrounding the mat package inside the rabbet? Right now I have the mat package 1/16 to 1/32 smaller than the rabbet. But, I am using turnbuttons to secure the mat package and it's quite snug. I would think it would need to be snug so there wasn't alot of air billowing in it in case it was moved around alot.

Thanks once again, Stan! for helping make this a much easier framing session for me. I'm getting there and I'll post a picture of the setup in the August Goalpost thread.

Cindy

scoller · #43 08-01-2005, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bing

How much room should there be surrounding the mat package inside the rabbet? Right now I have the mat package 1/16 to 1/32 smaller than the rabbet.

That works, you want the package to be only slightly smaller than the opening. Around an 1/8 it begins flopping around and the same size it runs the risk of puckering up. There needs to be a little room for normal expansion.
Please do not feel the need to get out a ruler - you can "eyeball" this.

If folks have specific questions they want addressed in the article - please send me a PM. Remember there are no "dumb" questions.

CindyW · #44 08-01-2005, 07:37 PM

Hi all,
Here's a thread with the question I'm asking now about attaching the art to the back of the mat or to the foamcore mount behind the mat and artwork.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232171
I've attached my art to the mat only because I took the cue from a lithograph I have from an NH artist and don't know if there is a negative to this approach.
Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Cindy

CindyW · #45 08-02-2005, 11:08 AM

Hi all,
Another question:
In storebought frames, is it negative to use those black heavyduty cardboards with the turnbuttons on them? I ask because the rabbet is so deep on this one that I would be using 4 layers of foamcore to push the mat package up to be flush with the frame back and would rather not use the good foamcore if I don't have to.
This is the mat package: glass, outer mat, hidden inner mat, artwork, foamcore backing, another foamcore backing, AND I use aluminum barrier tape to tape off the rabbet, might this be enough to keep the heavyduty cardboard at bay? Or is it just a bad idea completely?
I have 3 frames that use the black backing with turnbuttons. You know the kind I mean, have you seen them on frames you've bought?
Thanks!
Cindy

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