How long does colour last?

chocolatyclaire · #1 04-06-2005, 02:25 PM

I'm sorry if this has been posted before but I can't find an exact answer that I am looking for in any previous threads or the HOF.

The problem is.... I have been commissioned to do a large detailed CP painting measuring approx 3ft x 2ft (yep, its going to take me a lifetime, lol) that is going to be hung in a conservatory. One problem....lots of sunlight!

Can anybody tell me exactly how long CP colour will last before it noticibly fades? I'll be using Prismacolors on watercolour board. I've seen Prisma's lightfastness ratings and so some colours are better than others but I don't really want to limit my use of colour!

Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys

~Claire

wet · #2 04-06-2005, 02:34 PM

Claire I hope you are going to show us the piece when you get started on it.There would be issues with that much sun light no matter the medium. One thing that would help is to have it professionaly framed with uv filtering glass. More expensive but you could figure the cost into the piece. wanda

Flame Lily · #3 04-06-2005, 02:55 PM

Think about trying Van Gogh Colored Pencils, read here on Dick Blick what they have to say about them. Guaranteed light-fastness and for how many years etc. I've been using these for a couple of weeks, on each pencil it gives you their lightfast rating, they're ALL good... - not to mention DB is having a sale on them.

Weezy · #4 04-06-2005, 03:46 PM

Flame Lily,

I wish you'd quit spending my money!!!!

JanetteBC · #5 04-06-2005, 06:10 PM

One thing to concider is the level of burnishing you do -- a lot of breaking down of the medium can lead to a loss of lightfastness. All I have to look back on is 10 years and I can see a difference in the 2 styles I do , hope that helps.

chocolatyclaire · #6 04-06-2005, 07:51 PM

Thankd for your advice everyone but I still feel as though I'm no where near a solution.

Wanda? I've heard about that special type of UV glass and yes it would've been a great idea but unfortunately the frame and glass has already been bought. All I have to do is match a painting to it. (Its typical - its usually the other way around,

) And of course I'll show you the piece - you lot on here will be the first to see it. I'll have to do a WIP because i think it willl be a toughy so I'll need the help.

Flame Lily? If I'd known before I bought my Prismas only a short while ago, i would've considered buying the Van Goph. Maybe next time around I will.

Does anyone know how many years Prismas last in such sunlight so I can warn my client before starting to give him chance to change his mind. Or maybe is there some some sort of spray? (Am I dreaming a bit here?

)

~Claire

BKWYRM · #7 04-06-2005, 10:53 PM

Claire, the best thing would be conservation framing with UV-resistant glass.
Krylon makes a UV-resistant spray. Dick Blick, our industry partner carries it. I do not know how it works or how effective it is, but here's a link.

UV Spray

Is there any possibility the client would spring for the UV-resistant glass? Any type of artwork is going to fade in direct sunlight!

Flame Lily · #8 04-06-2005, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chocolatyclaire

Flame Lily? If I'd known before I bought my Prismas only a short while ago, i would've considered buying the Van Goph. Maybe next time around I will.

Claire, I only recently discovered this myself after buying a few different brands (Polychromo's, Pablo's & V Gogh's to add to my Prisma's to get a wider range of colors and to see what I might be missing) when the Van Gogh's arrived I was surprised to see that they had lightfastness ratings on the pencils, so I orderd more - this time watercolor Van Gogh's and read the pamphlet that came with them and was happy to hear that they guarantee their lightfastness and give years according to the ratings, almost half their pencils are guaranteed to be lightfast for 100 years and the others for a minimum of 25... that's just brilliant

I got some of the V Gogh watercolor pencils too... awesome pencils and they have pastel pencils too.

Of course - Prismacolors ARE great pencils. I recently went to a workshop and the instructor told me that she has cp works done with Prismacolors that she has had for 20 years and can not tell at all that they have faded or changed. I've also heard that from other artists I have met since starting cp. The only place I've really seen lightfastness issues discussed is on the Net and you have to remember that people often times just tell you their opinions. I have not studied this in great depth, but I want to. One of the artists in our local chapter of CPSA has studied this and told me I could buy a copy of her booklet she has done on it, I need to get that soon because I'm very curious. I know that the CPSA has a book too, but I have not purchased that.

I have no clue what you could tell them, other than they could possibly fade over time but you can't give them a definite answer as to when. However as was already suggested here, no matter what hangs in such a brightly lit place... pretty much anything is going to fade.

Don't chuck those Prisma's out

I'm not giving mine up.

Flame Lily · #9 04-06-2005, 11:30 PM

Ohh, I didn't know about that spray Kathy... cool! (Wish list growing... ya know, none of my family ever has to worry again about WHAT they need to buy me for birthday's and such! "Dear, just look at my wish list at Dick Blick!")

Katherine T · #10 04-07-2005, 03:17 AM

Anything done in CP or watercolour left in bright sunlight all the time is going to fade.

The lightfastness ratings for the Van Gogh of 100 years assume museum quality lighting. A bright sunlit conservatory certainly isn't that.

Both CP and watercolour paintings on paper should be hung in a place where they are out of bright sunlight for most of the day - and ideally all day. Protection using the UV glass will undoubtedly help - but I doubt whether it will resolve the lightfastness issue for work placed in bright sunlight. When somebody says to you they've got CP works hanging on their walls for 20 years with no deterioration ask them about: how they framed it; what sort of glass was used and how much direct/bright light falls on the painting. My guess is you'll find that these works are suitably framed (ie the paper hasn't deteriorated) and are not hanging in direct light.

You've also got to remember that bright sunlight and/or exposure to air and/or condensation over time also places paper under a great deal of stress.

This is the link to the CPSA page about lightfastness research on pigments, brands and paper I hope I've got that right as the information is only available to members and I've never seen it.

Katherine

Flame Lily · #11 04-07-2005, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katherine T

The lightfastness ratings for the Van Gogh of 100 years assume museum quality lighting.

Thank you so much Katherine for making that distinction, I need to remember to say that whenever I talk about this.

What do you think about making a print of the piece on good paper and framing the print? Sure the print would fade too but at least the original is protected, they could always hang another print of the original later on to replace it? Maybe this is a worse idea, but just wondering...

Thanks, this is so interesting.

RobinZ · #12 04-07-2005, 09:30 AM

I have never heard that burnishing compromises the lightfastness. I don't understand the science behind that, either. It seems to me that the burnished parts have a more solid layer. Why pressing hard over pigment with another layer would make it break down and fade, I don't understand.

Jalang, do you have pieces that are burnished in spots and not in others where the burnished parts are faded? Or are you comparing 2 different pieces? I just took my boxer who's head is my avatar out and looked for fade and didn't see any. He is only about 3 years old, though, and I always spray with the UV at the end. And he's never been in a brightly lit room.

I have to find this out, I burnish a lot. Anyone else who has info on burnishing and lightfastness, please weigh in!!!

chocolatyclaire · #13 04-07-2005, 09:46 AM

Flame Lily - you are a genius!

That is a really great idea. I had almost convinced myself that I was going to persuade the client to let me do it in graphite because that really is tought to fade but I might have to run that idea past him. Thankyou so much for that..... watch it go and hit me in the face now!

~Claire

Flame Lily · #14 04-07-2005, 10:05 AM

You're funny!

I think it's marvelous that you've been asked to do something like this... think of the "exposure" you'll get

I've seen giclee prints of CP work and they look almost identicle to the actual piece! Hope you find a solution. Can't wait to see you get started on this.

Rosa Weitzel · #15 04-07-2005, 10:45 AM

My thought would be seperate out the pencils you think your going to be useing take a piece of the paper you will use put the color down then take it where the amount of sun beating down is the same and put it there for a week or two. Oh yes make two papers the same. After a week or two compare them, see how there holding up.
Just a idea.

Rosa

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