How do artists manage to get that last finish?

[Unni]

I've tried invain to get that last and final finish in my oil paintings, especially portraits. Good artists manage to get that photorealistic effect in their paintings, like for instance Alex Levin in his work at http://artphoto.hypermart.net/gallery5.html

I just keep wondering how these artists manage to do that. Can any experienced artist guide me in getting the same?

Unni

[m_a_r_t_i_n]

First you must learn to see, then you must learn to draw, then you must learn to paint, then you must learn to bring all these things togeather, then you will be ready to begin learning.
Though if all you seek is photorealism my advice is to buy a camera and save yourself alot of hassle.
On the other hand should you seek realism, this is a different matter.
There is no easy answer.


[This message has been edited by m_a_r_t_i_n (edited March 19, 2001).]

[Unni]

Thanks M_a_r_t_i_n for your advice. I think I got the innermost meaning of your advice. This is one reason why most artists nowadays tend to move away from the photorealistic concept which was very much appreciated by the great masters of the past.

Unni

[belladonna]

[quote]Originally posted by m_a_r_t_i_n:
[b]Though if all you seek is photorealism my advice is to buy a camera and save yourself a lot of hassle.
On the other hand should you seek realism, this is a different matter.]
Dear Martin: I do believe that Unni is talking about technique rather than style;
"photo realistic EFFECT". A photo will never capture surrealism, or romantic realism or fantasy.

Dear Unni: Good tonal balance, highlights, reflected lights, blending with soft brushes, the right amount of selective detail, and a good eye, all combined, give that photo realistic effect. You must be able to visualize the subject, start with a good drawing, then the right colors, with a subject that you know inside and out. Keep the lighting in mind. Work on different textures, hair, skin, metal, velvet, rocks ..... It will all come together for you in time if you are willing to work at it. Study masters that you like, perhaps Rembrant, Leonardo, Boris, or Dali .... who ever you admire that use the techniques you like. Look at their work and you will find the answers right there. Study them and experiment with what you find. You can do it!

[Unni]

Thank you Belladona. I would say yours was an excellent piece of advice, the best I've received so far on wetcanvas.

Thanks once again.
Unni

[Keith Russell]

Yes, if you want to paint realistic subjects in a realistic manner, you might be better off buying a camera.

But--

--if you wish to paint non-real subjects in a realistic manner--

--ya just gotta do the work!

Keith.

------------------
Keith Russell
Synthetic Sky Studios
Science Fiction Fine Art
syntheticsky@hotmail.com
artkc.com/russelk.htm

[m_a_r_t_i_n]

This is one reason why most artists nowadays tend to move away from the photorealistic concept which was very much appreciated by the great masters of the past.

Unni[/b]

I don't recal seeing any photorealistic work by any of the great past masters. Many worked highly realistic, but not to my knowledge photorealistic.
Below is a hand study I did in what I would consider to be a photorealistic style, nowhere do you see this in any old masters, this style of painting has no appeal, it offers nothing, it is not good art.

<IMG SRC="http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-May-2001/hand1.jpg" border=0>

[Unni]

Martin,

Your hand study is a good one. Though you may not consider it "good art", it shows that you can perform. Doesn't "Monalisa" offer anything? Don't you call it realistic painting? I honestly believe it depends on the subject matter also.

Let us stop debating on the terms "realistic" and "photorealistic". Belladona has rightly conveyed what I meant:

Quote:

"Dear Martin: I do believe that Unni is talking about technique rather than style; "photo realistic EFFECT". A photo will never capture surrealism, or romantic realism or fantasy."

Hope this is taken in the right spirit.

Unni

[Luis Guerreiro]

Originally posted by Unni:
I've tried invain to get that last and final finish in my oil paintings, especially portraits. Good artists manage to get that photorealistic effect in their paintings, like for instance Alex Levin in his work at http://artphoto.hypermart.net/gallery5.html

I just keep wondering how these artists manage to do that. Can any experienced artist guide me in getting the same?

Unni

The web site above, 4th row, 1st painting on the left hand side ("The Sick Daughter").
Wow!!! That is such a fab work. I like it a lot, there is an appeal to it. More than photorealistic effect, what I admire is the light, the combination of the drawing with the light and the role of colour in it. Just great stuff. I am not concerned about photorealism, but yes i do agree with the importance of the EFFECT.

[belladonna]

Went to see the url above. The painting in question is beautiful!

[m_a_r_t_i_n]

Unni, should you still desire a photograph effect my suggestion would
be to try airbrushing, here is an artist that may interest you... http://www.drublair.com/
...personally, emotionally, I feel no more effected by this kind of
work than I do flicking through the photo's in some magazine, there's
actually very little difference.
Oh by the way, that hand study I did above, I'm glad you like it but
I did it on my computers scanner so really I can't take any credit
for it. I would have painted it myself only artistically I find my
talents are no match for that of my scanner

[Keith Russell]

M_A_R_T_I_N:

The 'hand' study is probably not 'art' to you, because it doesn't 'say' much; beyond being a nice hand, there isn't much there.

Whose hand is it, why is it in the position it's in, what is the person, whose hand it is, doing/feeling/experiencing?

These concepts are what makes realisitc art 'good'. They may not always be answered explicitly, but the viewer does want more information than just 'here's a hand'.

Yet, a painting done in this exact same style, but which offered some sort of emotional connection to its subject, or which had a strong sense of tension between what was revealed by the style, and yet left the viewer wondering about those things which were not explained (or shown) in the painting, could easily be considered 'art'--even possibly 'good' art.

Keith.

------------------
Keith Russell
Synthetic Sky Studios
Science Fiction Fine Art
syntheticsky@hotmail.com
artkc.com/russelk.htm

[TMoore]

I know what your talking about. I went through the same question myself. For years I have collected photos and clippings of portraits and organized the ones that have impressed me into a binder. One of the tabbed sections is specifically set aside for pieces that caught my eye because the level of draftsmanship was so high that you couldn't distinguish them from photographs. I have spent hours studying the pieces in that section. My draftsmanship has improved because of it.

Recently, I went through the entire collection (now two inches thick) and just for fun selected what I felt were the top 50 portraits. You know what? Not one of the them made it into the 50. Those that made it had something beyond what the camera can 'see'. I recommend studying those high draftsmanship paintings - absolutely. But more importatantly, you should study what gives a painting that quality beyond draftsmanship. I think this is what everyone is trying to say. Begin a collection as I have described above. When you get the pieces laid out all side-by side you will begin to see the elements that take a painting into the 'special'category. Then you have the work of learning to do it too - an activity to last a lifetime!

If you like the binder idea and want to learn more about it see the 'tools of the trade' thread in the Portraiture Forum.

Hope this helps!

Tammy

[This message has been edited by TMoore (edited May 29, 2001).]

[TMoore]

The answer to your question related to finish/technique is pretty broad. There are so many elements to get it - could write 30-40 pages probably. If we could see some of your work mabey we could be more specific as to specific areas of what you need related to getting that 'finish. I am new here but I have seen your name, Unni, many times. I have tried to access examples of your work in past threads. There are 171 posts that the search brought up. So far I have made it through page 1 - had to get off line for a few moments and the search bookmark didn't work. help! Can you post some examples of your work here. I have found one landscape so far.

Personally, I have worked rather exclusively in portraiture and would probably do more harm than good if giving advice in anything but... Post some portraits in with what you do list here and mabey I can help.

[This message has been edited by TMoore (edited May 30, 2001).]

[Unni]

Thanks Keith for your note.

Tammy, thanks for your detailed write-up. It helps really.

Besides the landscape, I have only posted two entries at wetcanvas. Please check them out at:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/004297.html
http://www.wetcanvas.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/003495.html

I don't know whether these are directly relevant to the subject under discussion. I am glad there has been real good response for this topic. Thanks to all, Martin included.

Unni