Anyone use Old Holland Manganese Blue Oil?

[Brian Firth]

I want to get my hands on some Manganese Blue oil paint. The only companies that still have a backstock of this pigment and manufacture it in oils are Old Holland and Vasari. I have no experience with Old Holland colors or Vasari. Vasari is more expensive, and I have not heard many people say much about Vasari so I am leaning towards OH. However, Bruce on handprint.com has stated that the OH watercolor Manganese blue is a very poor representation of the pigment, he goes as far as to say that "I don't feel the pricey, dingy Old Holland product would be worth using as a substitute" ( http://handprint.com/HP/WCL/waterb.html#PB33 ). I have also read from several people on Wetcanvas that Old Holland uses rather dull shades of pigments. I assume they use the same pigment in their oil colors as in their watercolors. I live in Tulsa, OK and there are no retailers within 200 miles which sell OH, so I can't just open up the tube at the store. I would have to blindly order from Dickblick or Jerry's. For more than $20 for a single tube I would really like to have confidence that it's worth it. I know several companies still sell the dry pigment, but I would much prefer to buy premade paint.

Does anyone have a tube of OH or Vasari manganese blue oil paint? Could you please post your impressions and a scan of a swatch with a tint?


Also, I just thought about Doak. Anyone know if he still offers genuine manganese blue? If so, could you please post impressions and/or scans of his?

[RuiFromUK]

Hi Brian,

I use OH Manganese blue. OH manufactures two tones of manganese blue and I use the lighter one.

I found it very comparable to Roberson's Manganese Blue which I have also used. Another advantage for you in Roberson's is of course being a US manufacturer and probably cheaper there.

I found both brands producing very good manganese blue oil paint.

Kind regards.

Rui

[Brian Firth]

Thanks Rui! I think Roberson's is made in the UK, not the US. Roberson's is not very easy to get here. I will probably get the OH Manganese Blue. It is the single pigment PB33 and the OH Manganese Blue Deep has manganese violet PV16 added. I definitely want the single pigment. Is there any way you could post a scan or picture of a color swatch of the OH manganese blue? If you could I would really appreciate it, thanks!

[RuiFromUK]

Hi Brian,

You are welcome.

Parts of the lake on the second picture of this thread were done in plain Manganese Blue. As I work during the week, if you want me to do a swatch still I'll do it over the weekend and I'll post it on Monday.

Manganese blue

Kind regards.

Rui

[Brian Firth]

Rui,
Nice paintings. They are all very beautifully blue! I really like the giant wave one. I can see the cool ice blue hue that looks like manganese blue in the lake you pointed out.

I would really appreciate it if you would still post a swatch, so I can get a good grasp of the color without surrounding tones that affect its appearance. Also, have you noticed if OH Manganese Blue is a very fast drying color? I would assume it would be, due to the manganese content. Thanks!

[RuiFromUK]

Hi Brian,

It is no problem at all. I'll do it this weekend as I have no facilities to paint at home and I have to paint outside only over the weekends.

Yes, manganese and cobalt are even used in some mediums to speed their drying process. I'll let you know if it dries overnight.

I just hope I don't forget but I'll try not to.

Kind regards.

Rui

[Einion]

Hi Brian, I can understand why you'd want to get paint instead of the dry pigment if you have a choice. I'm curious about why you want this colour so much, is there something specific about its character that you want/need? As I'm sure you know most of its admirable qualities are best observed in watercolour, in oils it's just a relatively dull, transparent green-blue and you can mix a pretty good colour match from cheaper pigments quite easily (bettering most of its qualities with ease if you wanted!)

Einion

[RuiFromUK]

Hi Brian,

Here are two swatches of manganese blue. Roberson's on the left and OH on the right.



Please bear in mind that this is just an approximation to the tube colour. The actual colour is a tiny lighter.

I hope this will help you.

Kind regards.

Rui

[Brian Firth]

Rui,
Thank you very much for posting the swatches!! The Roberson's and Old Holland look to be very similar. Old Holland is the only one I can obtain in the US, so it looks like that's the one. Thanks for your help.

Einion,
I do have the Winsor & Newton Manganese Blue Hue and from what I can tell it just doesn't match the hue and undertone of the true manganese blue. I think it is just PB15:4 with a bunch of blanc fix added to it and a touch of PG7 to further shift the hue toward green.

I want the genuine pigment for several reasons. I have read that it mixes great greens with yellows and I would love to experiment for myself. I like the idea of quick drying blues, which I can mix with a safflower based white to increase the drying time and minimize yellowing in skies and water. Most of all I love the unique cold ice blue hue and feel it is superior to the dull cerulean blue. This spectrum of blue pigments is really underrepresented in artists pigments with only PB15:3,4 and cerulean blue still being manufactured. And lastly, I am a pigment freak and love to expand my knowledge of unique pigments and their working properties.

[Einion]

Originally Posted by Brian Firth

I do have the Winsor & Newton Manganese Blue Hue... I think it is just PB15:4 with a bunch of blanc fix added to it and a touch of PG7 to further shift the hue toward green.

That seems likely.

Originally Posted by Brian Firth

Most of all I love the unique cold ice blue hue and feel it is superior to the dull cerulean blue.

No argument here.

Originally Posted by Brian Firth

This spectrum of blue pigments is really underrepresented in artists pigments with only PB15:3,4 and cerulean blue still being manufactured.

Well obviously we have to take what's available from industrial production as you know but if you look at other painters' work there doesn't seem to be a lack in this niche is there? Tints of Phthalo Blue GS are so stellar I can't imagine anyone wanting anything better, drying time is the problem there of course.

Incidentally looking for something else entirely I think I found that Holbein make the colour still so they might be worth looking for at a pinch.

Einion

[RuiFromUK]

Hi Einion,

Many thanks for pointing out Holbein's manganese blue, when I used to paint watercolours I had to find another manufacturer of manganese blue as Holbein had discontinued the production of genuine manganese blue and their Manganese Blue Nova apparently does not use the originial manganese blue pigment. I wonder what is the case with oil colours?

Kind regards.

Rui

[Brian Firth]

I contacted Holbein about a year ago and they said that they no longer use the genuine pigment. From my research, here are the only companies which still offer genuine manganese blue (PB33) oil paint:

Old Holland
Roberson's
Vasari
Robert Doak
Kama Pigments (dry pigment)



Old Holland is the only large manufacturer which still offers genuine manganese blue. Thanks for all your help. Now I just wait for payday…

[Einion]

Ah, I was afraid of that. The page I found looked like it might be out of date, sorry for getting your hopes up Rui!

Einion

[JeffG]

Regarding Vasari, I've never tried their paints but David Kassan, who is an excellent painter, says that he uses their paint extensively and loves it.

[logdon]

Rui: Great reproduction of the color. If you still have the swatches, have you tried putting some fresh color out of the tube alongside to see the change? My experience with Mang Blue (WN and Gamblin) is that they get quite green in four months or less. Anybody know how to correct this? Leeching? Adding Flake White?

Logdon